Britannia dress codes

[Gill W]

Well in for a penny or in for a pound as we say up here in the bleak cold north, on the Moray Firth, where I had to put up the sun owning out over the balcony today as temperatures toped over 18c.

But back to dress codes. I just don’t mind what other people do.

If I wish to wear a DJ then I will.

On our last cruise aboard the Fantasia there were a lot of gents wearing DJ’s with their ladies wearing cocktail dresses even on what was listed as casual dining evenings.

We always got appreciative looks from the ladies of other gents who just managed to remove their knotted handkerchief before entering the MDR’s.

The staff also appreciated the effort we made and responded appropriately. This made us more inclined to dress for diner, no matter what the daily orders were.

I will do the same on Britannia. I may even wear 'Highland Dress', just to annoy the limeys!!

What clan are you?

My great grandmother was a McKenzie. census records show her place of birth as either Tain or Portmahomack, so that's more or less your neck of the woods, I think.

[ITWA Travel Writer]

You can't scare me! I've seen 'Carry On Up The Khyber' and I know all about 'devils in skirts'

And that's the long and the shot of it!!

[bassman67]

Bassman
why would you offend anyone?, unless they decide to be offended and by the same token, why would you embarrass anyone?, unless they want to be embarrassed
this is the crux of all my posts about dress codes, it is my choice to dress up or not and it is not anybody else's concern nor is it their place to pass comment or judge me

"If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended."

[ITWA Travel Writer]

What clan are you? My great grandmother was a McKenzie. Census records show her place of birth as either Tain or Portmahomack, so that's more or less your neck of the woods, I think.

Gill, we are only 17miles as the crow flies over the Moray Firth from Portmahomack, but 75 miles by road through Inverness. My uncles family were from Tain.

I am a direct member by surname of the ‘Clan Hutton’ which is from the Dunblane area of Scotland which straddles the Lowland/Highland Boundary. My mother was from the ‘Clan Murray’ from the Blair Atholl area fully within the Highlands of Scotland. My wife Maureen is from the ‘Clan Grant’ from the Strathspey area of Scotland which straddles the Lowland/Highland Boundary.

When we speak of the boundary between ‘Lowland’ and ‘Highland’ Scotland it is not a geographical boundary but a cultural area originally based on language.

Parts of Moray for example are classed as being in the lowlands, although these parts are more northerly than many parts of the highlands. This is a common mistake made by many who believe that everything above the Forth and Clyde valley is classed as the highlands, including parcel delivery companies who just see a Highland Postcode and double their charges!

[bassman67]

Bassman
why would you offend anyone?, unless they decide to be offended and by the same token, why would you embarrass anyone?, unless they want to be embarrassed
this is the crux of all my posts about dress codes, it is my choice to dress up or not and it is not anybody else's concern nor is it their place to pass comment or judge me

"If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended."

You're quite right DK. It's very difficult to "give offence", but it's quite easily taken!

[Dark Knight]

Bassman
I love a bit of Midsummer nights dream as much as the next man
but cant see why you would offend anyone and if they take offence, then that is their fault, not yours

[Mervyn and Trish]

Those of us who complain are saying that the product could be better, much better without the fancy dress. And less of the sly digs please, somebody who complains when they have thousands of pounds to spend are not 'whingers', they are potential valuable repeat customers. A cruise consists of far more than a few silly pretentious evenings which are easily avoided. To say that you should avoid booking because you don't like one aspect of it is rather snooty.

No not snooty at all QB, and have no problem at all if you wish to cruise P&O and put up with or avoid the dress up nights.

What I, and others, are saying is that in our opinion the product would be worse, much worse, without the opportunity to dress in our finery a couple of times a week.

And why should P&O change their product to suit one lot of possible repeat customers when they know to do so would offend another lot? Why scrabble to compete in another sector of the market when they are very successful in their own?

There are dozens of cruise lines out there with a less formal offering (as Batty has found) and I am at a loss why anyone with, as you say, thousands of pounds to spend would choose to spend it on a proiduct they are not entirely happy with when others which might suit better are available.

[Dark Knight]

Qbob
to be fair, old poster boy, Merv is correct
we don't like the overly formal atmosphere on Pando, we find it cold and a bit dull, so we jumped ship to another line and found one we are very comfortable with
I would not expect Pando to change their formula for me, so if we do cruise with them, we avoid the formal nights.
my issue is people telling me what I must or must not do, when onboard, when it is none of their business

[Quizzical Bob]

Those of us who complain are saying that the product could be better, much better without the fancy dress. And less of the sly digs please, somebody who complains when they have thousands of pounds to spend are not 'whingers', they are potential valuable repeat customers. A cruise consists of far more than a few silly pretentious evenings which are easily avoided. To say that you should avoid booking because you don't like one aspect of it is rather snooty.

No not snooty at all QB, and have no problem at all if you wish to cruise P&O and put up with or avoid the dress up nights.

What I, and others, are saying is that in our opinion the product would be worse, much worse, without the opportunity to dress in our finery a couple of times a week.

And why should P&O change their product to suit one lot of possible repeat customers when they know to do so would offend another lot? Why scrabble to compete in another sector of the market when they are very successful in their own?

There are dozens of cruise lines out there with a less formal offering (as Batty has found) and I am at a loss why anyone with, as you say, thousands of pounds to spend would choose to spend it on a proiduct they are not entirely happy with when others which might suit better are available.

I have no complaints at all about providing options for all to enjoy, it must be an impossible task for P&O to please everybody. Despite what has been said there are very few cruise lines offering the same range as P&O, especially from Southampton which is very important for us. If there were, we would use them. We have now suffered/endured/survived over 80 formal nights by my calculations and it's fair to say that we haven't enjoyed any of them. I have worn the formal gear to all and can honestly say that it offers nothing to the enjoyment of the evening, quite the reverse. What we would prefer is the option not to wear the formal stuff but still have the option of an evening meal of the same standard as the MDR, possibly in a separate area or in another specialist dining outlet. Something for everybody, I say.

We like everything about cruising except for the formal nights and there just isn't the range of alternatives from our point of view. For those who have several hours of travel to the port anyway I can see that the other options must look attractive.

[bassman67]

Bassman
I love a bit of Midsummer nights dream as much as the next man
but cant see why you would offend anyone and if they take offence, then that is their fault, not yours

I know it wasn't strictly relevant, but it was WS's birthday and I couldn't resist stealing a resonant line from my fav!

[bassman67]

Just had a thought - wouldn't it be great if we were all sitting on a table of 8 right now; the night before B&W Night. What would the concensus be, I wonder for tomorrow? Probably "no concensus", just wait and see who turns up in what!!!

[Dark Knight]

or see who actually turns up, I will be in the buffet or pay per mouthful restaurant

[bassman67]

Just noticed that I can't spell - should have been " consensus"

Semper in stercorum ero, solo altitudo variat.

[HellsWardle]

Bassman - Sounds like you're club dining so we wouldn't there either because we always go Freedom But yes, I could imagine the conversation would be very intersting!!

This reminds me - on our last cruise a fellow diner recounted a story from the night before whereby they were on a table of 6 or 8 but right from the off it was clear that 2 guys really weren't going to get on. Everything one of them said the other had to have a dig back. It even got to the stage where one of the guys banged on the table and a glass of red wine was spilled all down the white shirt of the guy who was tell us the story. Apparently they even had an argument about the Yorkshire puddings that had been served!! It was a shame they couldn't just be civil to each other for the hour or so dinner takes!

Helen

[Dark Knight]

dress codes are a somewhat emotive topic, but it each to their own and I suspect we would all get on rather well

[Mervyn and Trish]

As far as I remember we did! But then we never saw each other on formal nights so you missed my baronial robes and I never saw your string vest!

[Quizzical Bob]

Back on the subject of dress codes, I came across this in the letters section of The Times last Saturday so it seems that it's not just cruises ships that can have problems:

Opera goers in black ties can be offensively snotty to those who accepted the invitation to “dress cool”

Sir, Your round-up of country house opera festivals (Apr 23) raises some interesting points about dress codes. It is all very well for a venue to say “wear what you like”. Last summer Martin Graham (whom we hugely admire) advised patrons to “dress cool” during the heatwave that coincided with Longborough’s sensational Ring Cycle. I dressed down (jacket, smart open-necked shirt). Most did not and sweltered, but I stuck out like a proverbial sore thumb. I also suffered looks of disdain and disapproving comments. The same has happened to us at West Green House, Glyndebourne, Bampton and elsewhere.

I have nothing against black ties and dinner jackets — it is the people wearing them that get up my nose.

At Welsh National Opera a black tie would itself seem just as out of place — and I have have just booked front stalls seats for the entire 2014-15 WNO season for about the same price as a single ticket for the likes of the Royal Opera House or Glyndebourne.

Martin Furber

Cardiff

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/l ... 073045.ece

[davecttr]

Like it

nice to read that snobbery is alive and well in modern britain

[Mervyn and Trish]

Back on the subject of dress codes, I came across this in the letters section of The Times last Saturday so it seems that it's not just cruises ships that can have problems:

Opera goers in black ties can be offensively snotty to those who accepted the invitation to “dress cool”

Sir, Your round-up of country house opera festivals (Apr 23) raises some interesting points about dress codes. It is all very well for a venue to say “wear what you like”. Last summer Martin Graham (whom we hugely admire) advised patrons to “dress cool” during the heatwave that coincided with Longborough’s sensational Ring Cycle. I dressed down (jacket, smart open-necked shirt). Most did not and sweltered, but I stuck out like a proverbial sore thumb. I also suffered looks of disdain and disapproving comments. The same has happened to us at West Green House, Glyndebourne, Bampton and elsewhere.

I have nothing against black ties and dinner jackets — it is the people wearing them that get up my nose.

At Welsh National Opera a black tie would itself seem just as out of place — and I have have just booked front stalls seats for the entire 2014-15 WNO season for about the same price as a single ticket for the likes of the Royal Opera House or Glyndebourne.

Martin Furber

Cardiff

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/l ... 073045.ece

It appears those who don't wear black ties can be sweepingly snotty too! Why tar all people of any preference with the same brush, whichever "side" you're on?

[bassman67]

Back on the subject of dress codes, I came across this in the letters section of The Times last Saturday so it seems that it's not just cruises ships that can have problems:

Opera goers in black ties can be offensively snotty to those who accepted the invitation to “dress cool”

Sir, Your round-up of country house opera festivals (Apr 23) raises some interesting points about dress codes. It is all very well for a venue to say “wear what you like”. Last summer Martin Graham (whom we hugely admire) advised patrons to “dress cool” during the heatwave that coincided with Longborough’s sensational Ring Cycle. I dressed down (jacket, smart open-necked shirt). Most did not and sweltered, but I stuck out like a proverbial sore thumb. I also suffered looks of disdain and disapproving comments. The same has happened to us at West Green House, Glyndebourne, Bampton and elsewhere.

I have nothing against black ties and dinner jackets — it is the people wearing them that get up my nose.

At Welsh National Opera a black tie would itself seem just as out of place — and I have have just booked front stalls seats for the entire 2014-15 WNO season for about the same price as a single ticket for the likes of the Royal Opera House or Glyndebourne.

Martin Furber

Cardiff

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/l ... 073045.ece

It appears those who don't wear black ties can be sweepingly snotty too! Why tar all people of any preference with the same brush, whichever "side" you're on?

Perhaps he should qualify his statement by saying that "it's the people wearing them that criticize me".
I wonder if this thread will still be going when we sail on the 9th October (2015)!

[Dancing Queen]

Back on the subject of dress codes, I came across this in the letters section of The Times last Saturday so it seems that it's not just cruises ships that can have problems:

Opera goers in black ties can be offensively snotty to those who accepted the invitation to “dress cool”

Sir, Your round-up of country house opera festivals (Apr 23) raises some interesting points about dress codes. It is all very well for a venue to say “wear what you like”. Last summer Martin Graham (whom we hugely admire) advised patrons to “dress cool” during the heatwave that coincided with Longborough’s sensational Ring Cycle. I dressed down (jacket, smart open-necked shirt). Most did not and sweltered, but I stuck out like a proverbial sore thumb. I also suffered looks of disdain and disapproving comments. The same has happened to us at West Green House, Glyndebourne, Bampton and elsewhere.

I have nothing against black ties and dinner jackets — it is the people wearing them that get up my nose.

At Welsh National Opera a black tie would itself seem just as out of place — and I have have just booked front stalls seats for the entire 2014-15 WNO season for about the same price as a single ticket for the likes of the Royal Opera House or Glyndebourne.

Martin Furber

Cardiff

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/l ... 073045.ece

It appears those who don't wear black ties can be sweepingly snotty too! Why tar all people of any preference with the same brush, whichever "side" you're on?

Perhaps he should qualify his statement by saying that "it's the people wearing them that criticize me".
I wonder if this thread will still be going when we sail on the 9th October (2015)!

I doubt it Bassman ...dress codes will crop up at least another dozen times before October

Shall we start a smoking thread, we haven't had one of those for a while

[bassman67]

We'll need Derek back for that!

[Quizzical Bob]

There's a running correspondence in the Times. Not a mention of cruising from what I've seen so far

[Dancing Queen]

We'll need Derek back for that!

That's true

[Dark Knight]

I find that the attitude of people is the same both sides of the debate
some insist it is only right and proper to dress formally, some take great delight in dressing down on purpose
The issue I have is that,some people think they can dictate what the rules are, without knowing the rules and refuse to accept there is "wiggle room" in the dress code
these people are the ones who need to learn some manners and accept they are in no position to tell anyone , anything