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Mervyn and Trish
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Mervyn and Trish » 29 Oct 2017, 18:18

Frank Manning wrote:
29 Oct 2017, 12:06
Mervyn and Trish wrote:
29 Oct 2017, 10:12
Hydrogen is only emission free at the exhaust pipe.

However the Hydrogen fuel has to be generated by electrolysis, turning water into hydrogen and oxygen, the reverse of the process which powers the car, re-creating water as the exhaust product.

Electrolysis requires electricity, which has to be generated. So Hydogen fuel is only as clean as the electricity source used to make it. And has the same problem as electric vehicles. If it became the fuel of choice it would cripple the national grid.

There is another factor with carrying a tank of Hydrogen round too. Anyone remember the Hindenberg and the R101?
Just goes to prove the old saying "there's no such thing as a free lunch." Now where did I put those elastic bands?.
Has no one told you about the environmental impact of elastic bands? :lol:


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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Frank Manning » 29 Oct 2017, 19:01

They can be painful if they twang and trap your fingers.....hmmm!

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Mervyn and Trish » 29 Oct 2017, 22:05

Or worse!

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by towny44 » 29 Oct 2017, 22:33

I can just about accept electricity as being valid under current affairs, but surely not elastic bands. :?
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Quizzical Bob » 30 Oct 2017, 12:49

towny44 wrote:
29 Oct 2017, 10:09
david63 wrote:
29 Oct 2017, 08:52
towny44 wrote:
29 Oct 2017, 08:26
I do rather fancy a plug in hybrid,
Currently plug in hybrids are not that practical. Firstly you have to have a charging point at home which costs several hundred pounds and the infrastructure for charging away from home is pretty poor - there are several companies that offer the service but they are unique in that if you subscribe to one you cannot use another one. Having said that this situation should improve over the next few years.

I was reading an interesting report a few weeks ago which said that the present electricity network is totally incapable of supporting plug-in electric vehicles in the domestic environment - if there were to be six cars in one street all charging at once then it would bring the area down and if you use a high speed charger at home you would not be able to boil a kettle at the same time!
Not sure about this David, my son is considering a plug in hybrid for his next company car and will have a high speed charger installed at home. I believe, from what he said, that this will be on a totally separate system to his normal domestic supply so I assume it will have no impact on his normal usage. I have read some articles about the possible impact of lots of cars charging at once, but I think these are a bit like the doomsayers of the impact of Brexit, full of hot air but little true facts.
Towny, like your views on Brexit you are far too complacent. Changing from oil-powered to Electric Vehicles will need the equivalent of several new nuclear power stations. That energy has to come from somewhere. Then there is the problem that electric vehicles still generate a lot of polution in the form of brake dust and tyre debris. If you think hat electric traction is clean then I suggest that you spend a few days on the Northern Line!

My institution the IEE (as it was then) did sme studies on this a decade or two ago and when all the losses in power transmission and battery conversion efficiency were taken into account the overall savings were not very great. All it does is move the polluting element a lot further away.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 23496.html
https://www.ft.com/content/11528c98-66f ... 38dcaef614


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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Quizzical Bob » 30 Oct 2017, 12:55

Mervyn and Trish wrote:
29 Oct 2017, 10:12
Hydrogen is only emission free at the exhaust pipe.

However the Hydrogen fuel has to be generated by electrolysis, turning water into hydrogen and oxygen, the reverse of the process which powers the car, re-creating water as the exhaust product.

Electrolysis requires electricity, which has to be generated. So Hydogen fuel is only as clean as the electricity source used to make it. And has the same problem as electric vehicles. If it became the fuel of choice it would cripple the national grid.

There is another factor with carrying a tank of Hydrogen round too. Anyone remember the Hindenberg and the R101?
Hydrogen is used in vehicles in California and is regarded as about as safe as gasoline. The hydrogen can be obtained from hydrocarbons.

https://www.slashgear.com/fuel-cell-saf ... -19479069/
https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/8- ... -cars.html

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by towny44 » 30 Oct 2017, 13:14

Quizzical Bob wrote:
30 Oct 2017, 12:49
towny44 wrote:
29 Oct 2017, 10:09
david63 wrote:
29 Oct 2017, 08:52
towny44 wrote:
29 Oct 2017, 08:26
I do rather fancy a plug in hybrid,
Currently plug in hybrids are not that practical. Firstly you have to have a charging point at home which costs several hundred pounds and the infrastructure for charging away from home is pretty poor - there are several companies that offer the service but they are unique in that if you subscribe to one you cannot use another one. Having said that this situation should improve over the next few years.

I was reading an interesting report a few weeks ago which said that the present electricity network is totally incapable of supporting plug-in electric vehicles in the domestic environment - if there were to be six cars in one street all charging at once then it would bring the area down and if you use a high speed charger at home you would not be able to boil a kettle at the same time!
Not sure about this David, my son is considering a plug in hybrid for his next company car and will have a high speed charger installed at home. I believe, from what he said, that this will be on a totally separate system to his normal domestic supply so I assume it will have no impact on his normal usage. I have read some articles about the possible impact of lots of cars charging at once, but I think these are a bit like the doomsayers of the impact of Brexit, full of hot air but little true facts.
Towny, like your views on Brexit you are far too complacent. Changing from oil-powered to Electric Vehicles will need the equivalent of several new nuclear power stations. That energy has to come from somewhere. Then there is the problem that electric vehicles still generate a lot of polution in the form of brake dust and tyre debris. If you think hat electric traction is clean then I suggest that you spend a few days on the Northern Line!

My institution the IEE (as it was then) did sme studies on this a decade or two ago and when all the losses in power transmission and battery conversion efficiency were taken into account the overall savings were not very great. All it does is move the polluting element a lot further away.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 23496.html
https://www.ft.com/content/11528c98-66f ... 38dcaef614
QB, like most remainers you only comment on half the facts, I did in fact indicate a liking for a plug in hybrid, as you will know these vehicles only have small batteries and generally an electric only range of 50 or so miles. So this sort of vehicle would primarily use hydrocarbon fuel for long journeys, but would have the capability of being fully electric for local running. The timing for any purchase of mine is several years away, time for the new green electricity generation to come on stream as well as improvements in battery size and performance and, since wind is a 24 hr commodity then overnight charging could be made cheap enough to make electric vehicles very economic.
But maybe I should bow down to your old and possibly out of date statistics.
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Quizzical Bob » 30 Oct 2017, 14:28

towny44 wrote:
30 Oct 2017, 13:14
Quizzical Bob wrote:
30 Oct 2017, 12:49
towny44 wrote:
29 Oct 2017, 10:09
david63 wrote:
29 Oct 2017, 08:52
Currently plug in hybrids are not that practical. Firstly you have to have a charging point at home which costs several hundred pounds and the infrastructure for charging away from home is pretty poor - there are several companies that offer the service but they are unique in that if you subscribe to one you cannot use another one. Having said that this situation should improve over the next few years.

I was reading an interesting report a few weeks ago which said that the present electricity network is totally incapable of supporting plug-in electric vehicles in the domestic environment - if there were to be six cars in one street all charging at once then it would bring the area down and if you use a high speed charger at home you would not be able to boil a kettle at the same time!
Not sure about this David, my son is considering a plug in hybrid for his next company car and will have a high speed charger installed at home. I believe, from what he said, that this will be on a totally separate system to his normal domestic supply so I assume it will have no impact on his normal usage. I have read some articles about the possible impact of lots of cars charging at once, but I think these are a bit like the doomsayers of the impact of Brexit, full of hot air but little true facts.
Towny, like your views on Brexit you are far too complacent. Changing from oil-powered to Electric Vehicles will need the equivalent of several new nuclear power stations. That energy has to come from somewhere. Then there is the problem that electric vehicles still generate a lot of polution in the form of brake dust and tyre debris. If you think hat electric traction is clean then I suggest that you spend a few days on the Northern Line!

My institution the IEE (as it was then) did sme studies on this a decade or two ago and when all the losses in power transmission and battery conversion efficiency were taken into account the overall savings were not very great. All it does is move the polluting element a lot further away.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 23496.html
https://www.ft.com/content/11528c98-66f ... 38dcaef614
QB, like most remainers you only comment on half the facts, I did in fact indicate a liking for a plug in hybrid, as you will know these vehicles only have small batteries and generally an electric only range of 50 or so miles. So this sort of vehicle would primarily use hydrocarbon fuel for long journeys, but would have the capability of being fully electric for local running. The timing for any purchase of mine is several years away, time for the new green electricity generation to come on stream as well as improvements in battery size and performance and, since wind is a 24 hr commodity then overnight charging could be made cheap enough to make electric vehicles very economic.
But maybe I should bow down to your old and possibly out of date statistics.
Towny, you can't avoid the basics. The energy needed for these road vehicles has to come from somewhere, and there is not enough electricity generating capacity in the UK at the moment to replace that which is currently supplied (do you see what I did there?) by hydrocarbons in the vehicle's fuel tanks. It doesn't matter whether this extra electricity is renewable, nuclear or fossil, the demand is extra to the present capabilities and as things stand now is a threat to present supplies. Off-peak supply is already accounted for to some extent. Battery performance is continually improving but we are more than 'several years' away from significant improvements.

By all means go ahead and consider a hybrid solution, I'm sure it will fulfil your needs, but if the whole country changed over tomorrow we would all have to take turns over charging them. If we are to change then an enormous investment needs to me made in the next ten years and I don't see where that money is going to come from.

None of the snide comments please, thes matters fall under my professional briefing and I am required to keep up to date with developments.


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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Frank Manning » 30 Oct 2017, 14:51

Hi QB interesting point. Our council's argument to any traffic and motoring problems is 'use the buses or walk. Unless of course you are in an 'essential occupation. I. e. Theirs.

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by oldbluefox » 30 Oct 2017, 15:38

Sadly when our politicians come up with these brainwaves they forget we don't all live in London. Neither public transport nor walking are alternatives in the greater part of rural areas. For the majority of the population, apart from the expense, getting to work by public transport is not feasible unless you live................. :yawn:
Last edited by oldbluefox on 30 Oct 2017, 15:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by towny44 » 31 Oct 2017, 16:08

Quizzical Bob wrote:
30 Oct 2017, 14:28

None of the snide comments please, these matters fall under my professional briefing and I am required to keep up to date with developments.
I was not aware I was being snide, merely pointing out that in your own words the data you quote was a decade or two old, and with the recent major advances in electric car technology it will very likely be out of date now.
Possibly I should be upset at your suggestion that my attitude to hybrid cars was as complacent as my views on Brexit, but we Yorkshire men are more broad shouldered and do not take offence that easily. :)
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by barney » 31 Oct 2017, 16:28

As soon as they make an electric car with a range of 200+ miles on a charge, I'm in.
I think it's the future and the old combustion engine has had it's day.
Can anyone tell me why they cannot produce a car with two batteries, one driving the car while the other is charging via some sort of dynamo?
Then just switch as one decreases but it immediately goes back on charge.
I expect there is a simple reason why it cannot be done.

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by towny44 » 31 Oct 2017, 16:59

barney wrote:
31 Oct 2017, 16:28
As soon as they make an electric car with a range of 200+ miles on a charge, I'm in.
I think it's the future and the old combustion engine has had it's day.
Can anyone tell me why they cannot produce a car with two batteries, one driving the car while the other is charging via some sort of dynamo?
Then just switch as one decreases but it immediately goes back on charge.
I expect there is a simple reason why it cannot be done.
I think that would be called perpetual motion Barney, which I doubt we will see in our lifetime.
Last edited by towny44 on 31 Oct 2017, 16:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Manoverboard » 01 Nov 2017, 13:59

We were driving slowly through Castle Point's lower level carpark ( in Bournemouth ) in a Toyota Hybrid yesterday. It was utterly silent and the slightly deaf little old lady who was pushing her Sainsbury's trolley came very close to death or worse by putting a large scrape down the side of one's chums new RAV4.

Serious point here is that there should be an over-ride to switch off the Electric drive in favour of Petrol/Diesel thus making them a lot safer ( LOUDER ) than is presently the case.

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by qbman1 » 01 Nov 2017, 14:14

Or he could get a Dukes of Hazard type air horn - that would snap her out of her stupor !

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Manoverboard » 01 Nov 2017, 14:20

I said ... SERIOUS point ;)

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by qbman1 » 01 Nov 2017, 14:45

All supermarket trolleys should be fitted with an air horn as standard

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Stephen » 01 Nov 2017, 15:22

.... and long spikes on the wheels

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by qbman1 » 01 Nov 2017, 16:17

Don't forget the child catcher on the front

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Stephen » 01 Nov 2017, 17:08

Bull bars for me to shift the lard ar*es that stand chatting in the door way and isles

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Jack Staff » 01 Nov 2017, 19:56

So, Fallon has gone.
Time for a reshuffle then, I wonder if disgraced former Defense Minister Fox will get his old job back?
Testiculi ad Brexitum. Venceremos.

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by qbman1 » 02 Nov 2017, 09:28

Ridiculous - if we were all caught touching someone's knee 30 years ago, the prisons would be full to overflowing !

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Stephen » 02 Nov 2017, 09:36

What makes me laugh is why the women in question don't complain and pursue it when the alleged event happend, not five+ years later just because it is suddenly making news and they want they're five minutes of fame.

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Jan Rosser » 02 Nov 2017, 09:41

qbman1 wrote:
02 Nov 2017, 09:28
Ridiculous - if we were all caught touching someone's knee 30 years ago, the prisons would be full to overflowing !
I have to agree with you there Cubie - there's "inappropriate behaviour" and "inappropriate behaviour" and I was more riled about being expected as the new girl in the office to have to make the tea for the "boys" than an arm around my shoulder. After I left school I worked in the Engineers' department at my local council and there was only myself and two other women - the rest being the "boys" - I never ever felt anyone overstepped the mark - bit of banter - I imagine today however even that would be frowned on. One thing I do remember particularly was no bad language - the lack of vocabulary skills and the frequent use of the "f" word is a sad reflection of society today.
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Jack Staff » 02 Nov 2017, 10:09

qbman1 wrote:
02 Nov 2017, 09:28
Ridiculous - if we were all caught touching someone's knee 30 years ago, the prisons would be full to overflowing !
You haven't seen 'the list' then....
Testiculi ad Brexitum. Venceremos.

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by qbman1 » 02 Nov 2017, 10:25

Jan Rosser wrote:
02 Nov 2017, 09:41
qbman1 wrote:
02 Nov 2017, 09:28
Ridiculous - if we were all caught touching someone's knee 30 years ago, the prisons would be full to overflowing !
I have to agree with you there Cubie - there's "inappropriate behaviour" and "inappropriate behaviour" and I was more riled about being expected as the new girl in the office to have to make the tea for the "boys" than an arm around my shoulder. After I left school I worked in the Engineers' department at my local council and there was only myself and two other women - the rest being the "boys" - I never ever felt anyone overstepped the mark - bit of banter - I imagine today however even that would be frowned on. One thing I do remember particularly was no bad language - the lack of vocabulary skills and the frequent use of the "f" word is a sad reflection of society today.
Absolutely, Blod. Back then, if anyone got a bit too frisky, you would just tell the chap to sod off and think no more of it

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by qbman1 » 02 Nov 2017, 10:40

So, the new Defence Secretary is Gavin Williamson - from up near Merv's parish. Wonder whose knees he's squeezed on the way up ?!

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Stephen » 02 Nov 2017, 10:55

qbman1 wrote:
02 Nov 2017, 10:40
So, the new Defence Secretary is Gavin Williamson - from up near Merv's parish. Wonder whose knees he's squeezed on the way up ?!
Who's ever they are, he's keeping quiet about it :D


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Re: Current Affairs

Post by CaroleF » 02 Nov 2017, 11:52

Going back to Hybrid cars, we have a Lexus Hybrid, which incidentally I really like, so comfortable and easy to get out of unlike some lower based cars. I agree they can be dangerous when starting off as they make no noise at all until it switches to petrol, so we are really careful when moving off, either at home or in a car park, to ensure that no-one is passing by, no children running round because they really wouldn't be aware that the car was in motion.

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by david63 » 02 Nov 2017, 16:54

I read once that in USA (not sure where) that hybrid and electric cars have to have an audible sound device fitted so that the less observant would know that there was a car about to mow them down! Not sure how that would work if you had your mobile phone glued to your ear or had earphone on!!

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by oldbluefox » 02 Nov 2017, 17:44

Carole could always stick her head out of the window and go "Brrrmmm, brrrmmm!"

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by towny44 » 02 Nov 2017, 22:33

As if to prove my oft proclaimed point that the money men who operate in our financial markets don't have a clue, the B of E doubles UK interest rates and the pound loses 1.5 - 2.0% of its value!!!!! :? :shock: :o
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by CaroleF » 03 Nov 2017, 10:41

Thanks Foxy, will give it a go. John will think I've gone mad! I'll blame you - tell him it's a new regulation when you have a Hybrid car!

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Stephen » 03 Nov 2017, 10:45

oldbluefox wrote:
02 Nov 2017, 17:44
Carole could always stick her head out of the window and go "Brrrmmm, brrrmmm!"

If witches can get away with it.....

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by qbman1 » 03 Nov 2017, 12:37

What about this crazy idea to give 16 year olds the vote?

Here's a few comments lifted from Twaddle today.....

"If Tommy Robinson, Joey Essex and Paul Nuttall are allowed to vote I see absolutely no reason why 16 year olds shouldn't."

"Hope Parliament passes votes at 16 today. I was against it at 16, on grounds half the people I knew were idiots. But age doesn't change that."

"I’m 17, I can confirm that Votes At 16 is a REALLY stupid idea. Almost all people my age are clueless & think as a group, not an individual"

"Let's not pretend Labour are backing votes at 16 for any other reason than they think 16 year olds will all vote Labour. At least be honest."

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Jack Staff » 03 Nov 2017, 22:01

The Conservatives just talked out the 16 year olds vote, causing a delay to when it can be decided. Bit of a dirty trick in my book, whichever way you think.
Why would they do that?
When’s the next series of Boon out?
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by qbman1 » 04 Nov 2017, 09:10

Most 16 year olds I have come across can't even wipe their own a*se let alone make a considered judgement

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Manoverboard » 04 Nov 2017, 09:42

qbman1 wrote:
04 Nov 2017, 09:10
 ! Message from: Manoverboard
Most 16 year olds I have come across can't even wipe their own a*se
let alone make a considered judgement
How do you know ... :sick:

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by oldbluefox » 04 Nov 2017, 14:44

Seems odd to me that we are considering 16 year olds old enough to vote but not old enough to drive, purchase alcohol, fight on the frontline, buy violent games or watch certain films. Some in the media refer to 16 year olds as children (when it suits them) so somewhere along the line we need to make up our minds whether they are deemed adults or still children. They can't be both, unless you are a politician who thinks lowering the voting age will cynically assist you into gaining power..................

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by david63 » 04 Nov 2017, 15:33

If anything I would raise the voting age to 30 so that when voting you would have some experience of life in the "real" world and be in a position to make informed decisions.


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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Ray B » 04 Nov 2017, 19:28

qbman1 wrote:
04 Nov 2017, 09:10
Most 16 year olds I have come across can't even wipe their own a*se let alone make a considered judgement
A woman on the Jeremy Vine show last Friday was telling him that if you tickle your child it may lead it to become a sexual predator. Also, you may be invading babies space without it's permission, and, when changing a nappy or washing genitalia, you must talk to baby and tell the child that you are only doing this because it is unable to do it him/herself.

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Happydays » 05 Nov 2017, 11:41

Ray B wrote:
04 Nov 2017, 19:28
qbman1 wrote:
04 Nov 2017, 09:10
Most 16 year olds I have come across can't even wipe their own a*se let alone make a considered judgement
A woman on the Jeremy Vine show last Friday was telling him that if you tickle your child it may lead it to become a sexual predator. Also, you may be invading babies space without it's permission, and, when changing a nappy or washing genitalia, you must talk to baby and tell the child that you are only doing this because it is unable to do it him/herself.
I find it hard to believe how stupid some people can be! It all seems to be getting out of hand, perhaps that is something I can't say I mentioned "hand" people will be afraid to be alone with anyone in case they are accused of harassment of any kind. :moresarcasm:

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by oldbluefox » 05 Nov 2017, 12:35

I'm wondering how much compensation I can claim when, as a raw 14 year old I was taken to the Church Christmas party by mother and father. Dancing was very much part of the entertainment and whilst I didn't mind dancing with mother the problem arose when it came to 'going progressive' and we all moved along one partner. Loose false teeth, the smell of embrocation and aged bosoms at youthful eye level have left me traumatised. Do you think I could still claim compensation?
But what do I know? I still think it's sad that wolf whistles are politically incorrect and the pendulum is now swinging further to the extent you are afraid of speaking or going anywhere near another person for fear of upsetting them in one way or another.

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Mervyn and Trish » 05 Nov 2017, 15:57

oldbluefox wrote:
05 Nov 2017, 12:35
I'm wondering how much compensation I can claim when, as a raw 14 year old I was taken to the Church Christmas party by mother and father. Dancing was very much part of the entertainment and whilst I didn't mind dancing with mother the problem arose when it came to 'going progressive' and we all moved along one partner. Loose false teeth, the smell of embrocation and aged bosoms at youthful eye level have left me traumatised. Do you think I could still claim compensation?
But what do I know? I still think it's sad that wolf whistles are politically incorrect and the pendulum is now swinging further to the extent you are afraid of speaking or going anywhere near another person for fear of upsetting them in one way or another.
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Stephen
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Stephen » 05 Nov 2017, 16:27

I personally think it is disgraceful that all these mp's are being named and shamed before they have been proven guilty. If it turns out these people are innocent then it is usually too late and they're reputations and careers are tarnished or ruined. If a person is guilty, whoever they are, fine, take the required action, but don't go naming people before they have been found guilty. It is completely wrong in my view.
Last edited by Stephen on 05 Nov 2017, 16:29, edited 2 times in total.


Ray B
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Ray B » 05 Nov 2017, 16:50

Stephen, I am sure a lot of us will agree with you.

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Jack Staff
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Jack Staff » 05 Nov 2017, 20:00

What about the one(s) who refer themselves to the Police and Whips office?
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towny44
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by towny44 » 13 Nov 2017, 22:33

Watching the news today which showed various Labour front benchers, my wife said "why is it that so many well educated supposedly intelligent politicians join the Labour party", my response was probably because they are not good enough for the Tory party.
Now I realise that's not strictly correct but why do so many university educated voters support the Labour party, surely they can't really believe that Labour policies are going to grow the economy and that employers are suddenly going to undergo a benevolent transformation and share more wealth with the workers than their shareholders.
If so we definitely need to improve our universites educational standards.
Last edited by towny44 on 13 Nov 2017, 22:33, edited 1 time in total.
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qbman1
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by qbman1 » 14 Nov 2017, 10:14

It's no doubt because they are brainwashed in schools and universities by the overwhelming majority of lefties in positions of authority


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Re: Current Affairs

Post by CaroleF » 14 Nov 2017, 10:53

When I was teaching in the eighties and nineties it was quite acceptable in the schools I taught in - mostly Comprehensives in very Middle Class areas - for staff to sit in the staffroom reading The Guardian. Two of us read The Telegraph - you would have thought we were destined for hell and damnation. I always remember during the time of the John Major election - the one where Kinnock had his spectacular appearance at I think Sheffield - that the Labour supporters on the staff were convinced that the next morning Kinnock would be at number 10. On that morning when I entered the staffroom not a word was said about the election and I didn't say anything either!

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