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barney
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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 04 May 2019, 19:09

So, what did the local elections prove ?

I reckon that both Labour & Tories will do pretty much anything to avoid the humiliation that would ensure if the EU elections take place.

One poll has put the Brexit Party on 40%
The LibDems, Greens and ChangeUK also fancy their chances now.
The two big boys could get almost wiped out.

I expect a whipped 'fudge' of a Tory/Labour deal to be put to Parliament next week to negate the need.

Will the MPs go for it ?

My guess is not, but you never know !

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Re: Brexit

Post by Kendhni » 04 May 2019, 23:50

barney wrote:
04 May 2019, 19:09
So, what did the local elections prove ?
That is a very interesting question - was it disgruntled brexiteers showing their disapproval or disgruntled remainers showing their disapproval?
The shift seemed to be to LibDem and Green, both remain parties ... away from Conservatives, Labour and a decimation of UKIP?
Independents also did very well - they often stand on much more local issues, but who knows what sort of brexit/remain breakdown they might relate to.
I suppose some brexiteers may have felt they had noone to vote for.

The only thing that I think has been proven is just how ineffective a Corbyn/Momentum led Labour party is. They have totally failed to make mid-term gains against what appears to be a very unpopular government.

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Re: Brexit

Post by david63 » 05 May 2019, 08:53

barney wrote:
04 May 2019, 19:09
So, what did the local elections prove ?
They proved that many of the electorate were not voting for the "candidate" and what they could offer to benefit the community but for a "party" and for reasons that are totally outside the control of the local council councillors.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Manoverboard » 05 May 2019, 09:38

39,000> spoiled voting papers with ' Brexit ' written on them tells the House to get on with it.

It needs the Tories to unite, the DUP to support them and for Labour MPs to have a free vote re yet another vote on TM's deal next week.

Back to the real World .... :yawn:


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Re: Brexit

Post by screwy » 05 May 2019, 10:40

Well I for one voted with local issues in mind,Brexit never came into it.
Quo Fas et Gloria Ducunt


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Re: Brexit

Post by CaroleF » 05 May 2019, 11:00

I may be wrong but I suspect that some/many who voted for Lib Dems did so because there was no other option apart from Conservative or Labour. Many times over the years have Lib Dems done really well at Local elections only to lose spectacularly at a General Election. There weren't any elections in our Borough.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Manoverboard » 05 May 2019, 12:17

Tory Dorset has very recently been re-organised, the previous 9 divisions are now only two and this bold step will save millions of pounds year on year for the rural parts of the County. The rural part has unsurprisingly remained Tory but Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole ( the other part ) finished up without an overall majority.

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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 05 May 2019, 18:56

We switched from NOC to Libdems winning control. Personally, I voted for two independents, both of whom were elected.

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Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 05 May 2019, 21:05

We voted for the independent candidates based purely on what they could offer locally and the fact they were also local people. We realised that, as usual, it would be a wasted vote since in these parts they are religiously Labour and have been ever since Methuselah was a lad.
Can you imagine my surprise to find that that both independent candidates had been elected at the expense of Labour. As a consequence no party in Allerdale has overall control. There is a lot of anger in these parts from those who feel betrayed by the Labour party in a strongly Brexit constituency.


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Re: Brexit

Post by anniec » 08 May 2019, 14:25

What a difference two years makes:

Do you approve or disapprove of the way in which the Government is handling the Brexit negotiations?

7th May 2017:
Approve: 55%
Disapprove: 45%

6th May 2019:
Approve: 8% (-47)
Disapprove: 92% (+47)

ElectionMapsUK

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Re: Brexit

Post by Onelife » 08 May 2019, 15:37

Perhaps a fairer poll would have asked...Do you approve or disapprove of the way rremainers have sabotaged the whole Brexit process?


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Re: Brexit

Post by CaroleF » 08 May 2019, 16:04

Had our postal voting forms through yesterday - what a long list!

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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 08 May 2019, 16:07

I cannot imagine anybody, no matter which side of the debate you are on, could think that this government has handled it well.

All the clap trap about TM being handed a poison chalice is just that.

she wanted the job !
she picked the negotiating team !
she had 100% influence on which way the talks were to go !
she cocked it up !

Channel four has a fly on the wall tonight about the discussions from an EU perspective.
It might be interesting and show what real contempt they have not only for her and her team, but for the UK people overall.

My take has always been that we have been tolerated as a bit of an outsider because they so desperately need our financial contributions.

I wonder if this docu will confirm or refute my suspicion.

I note that just today, Guy Verhofstadt was berating the Turkish government for insisting on a re-vote because their guy lost in the mayor elections.
A dictatorship he called it, because they didn't like the original result.
But, ironically, calling for another Brexit vote because you didn't like the original is for 'democracy'

Their shear hypocrisy seems lost on them. :?:

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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 08 May 2019, 16:09

CaroleF wrote:
08 May 2019, 16:04
Had our postal voting forms through yesterday - what a long list!
If you Google how the seats are allocated Carole, you'll be even more baffled :lol:

Take the largest vote - allocate one seat - divide by two- then the next largest vote - then divide by two again - then the next .....zzzzzzzzzzz

I believe that Hampshire comes under the South East, so you get Farridge on your list.

We get Gibraltar ????? :lol:

Quite interestingly, there are twelve official parties standing in the upcoming EU elections and an exact 50/50 split of their stance.
Six pro leave
Six pro remain

Could be a bit like another referendum (advisory only) :lol:
Last edited by barney on 08 May 2019, 16:23, edited 3 times in total.


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Re: Brexit

Post by Ray Scully » 08 May 2019, 17:06

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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 08 May 2019, 17:28

It appears that you are suggesting Farridge is a fascist Ray. That's a bit extreme, even for an anti democrat.


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Re: Brexit

Post by Ray Scully » 09 May 2019, 02:33

barney wrote:
08 May 2019, 17:28
It appears that you are suggesting Farridge is a fascist Ray. That's a bit extreme, even for an anti democrat.
Don't shoot the messenger Barney old chap..... anyway he is not someone I would wish to be associated with.

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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 09 May 2019, 09:27

Ray Scully wrote:
09 May 2019, 02:33
barney wrote:
08 May 2019, 17:28
It appears that you are suggesting Farridge is a fascist Ray. That's a bit extreme, even for an anti democrat.
Don't shoot the messenger Barney old chap..... anyway he is not someone I would wish to be associated with.
As this board's resident lefty, I'm very happy to vote for his party on this one single issue. The forecast is that many others will feel the same.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Manoverboard » 09 May 2019, 10:22

Such-a-body who stands for The Brexit Party in the forthcoming Euro Elections will deffo get my, and Mobietta's, vote :wave:

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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 09 May 2019, 10:50

The current prediction is that they will take 30 out of 73 seats. So by far the largest party. What could change in the next few weeks is the classic foot in mouth syndrome. I wouldn't rule that out.
Nationalists could well be the largest group of members.
I include Scottish Nationalists in that.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Manoverboard » 09 May 2019, 11:04

As an aside … we have our Polling Cards, albeit probably not required, but no leaflets etc regarding the candidates.

Any idea who will be standing for the Brexit Party in rural Darzet ?

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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 09 May 2019, 11:35

Easy to find out Moby. The areas are huge. Dorset would more likely to be under the south west. You've got dozens to choose from under this system.
The lead Brexit is Ann Widdecombe
The lead Change UK is Rachel Johnson
The lead labour is Lord Adonis
And so in.......
It's not first past the post


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Re: Brexit

Post by Ray Scully » 09 May 2019, 11:37

barney wrote:
09 May 2019, 10:50
The current prediction is that they will take 30 out of 73 seats. So by far the largest party. What could change in the next few weeks is the classic foot in mouth syndrome. I wouldn't rule that out.
Nationalists could well be the largest group of members.
I include Scottish Nationalists in that.
and once elected I don't think they will be busting a gut for us to leave. It will be a nice little earner, particularly considering the appalling attendance rates of Farage's last party.


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Re: Brexit

Post by Quizzical Bob » 09 May 2019, 11:46

Manoverboard wrote:
09 May 2019, 10:22
Such-a-body who stands for The Brexit Party in the forthcoming Euro Elections will deffo get my, and Mobietta's, vote :wave:
It isn’t an actual political party like any other. It is a limited company with no party members. It’s ‘leader’ is not elected. Anybody who signs up with a donation is merely lining Farage’s pockets, not that he’s got any room left in them.

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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 09 May 2019, 12:16

You guys continue to live in your world of denial. Anyone who has given money to the Brexit party know exactly what they are doing. They are contributing to a major market disruptor.
That is exactly what this country needs at the moment, irrespective of your views on the biggest democratic decision in British history.
They need a serious shake up.
Farridge is the guy to do it.
He's never aspiring to be the PM.
Love him or loathe him, he is without doubt the most influential politician of his generation.
TM would kill for 10,% of his influence.


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Re: Brexit

Post by Ray Scully » 09 May 2019, 12:22

barney wrote:
09 May 2019, 12:16
You guys continue to live in your world of denial. Anyone who has given money to the Brexit party know exactly what they are doing. They are contributing to a major market disruptor.
That is exactly what this country needs at the moment, irrespective of your views on the biggest democratic decision in British history.
They need a serious shake up.
Farridge is the guy to do it.
He's never aspiring to be the PM.
Love him or loathe him, he is without doubt the most influential politician of his generation.
TM would kill for 10,% of his influence.
Stanley Baldwin's quote "power without responsibility" comes readily to mind

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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 09 May 2019, 12:27

Absolutely Ray
As I said, he's a market disruptor.
Nothing more.
Im not sure he professes to be anything else.
To stand for an institution that you want to abolish confirms that

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Re: Brexit

Post by Manoverboard » 09 May 2019, 12:39

This morning we finally received an ' Election Communication '. It refers to ' New Candidates ' and ' Our Candidates ' etc but we've never heard of any of them. There's no mention at all of Ann Widdecombe :lol:

On a serious note, this is our very first Euro Election but as per QBob's posting this is going to be an election like no other.

Question is therefore " How does it effing well work, what is going to be on the voting paper ? " :?


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Re: Brexit

Post by Quizzical Bob » 09 May 2019, 12:59

barney wrote:
09 May 2019, 12:16
You guys continue to live in your world of denial. Anyone who has given money to the Brexit party know exactly what they are doing. They are contributing to a major market disruptor.
That is exactly what this country needs at the moment, irrespective of your views on the biggest democratic decision in British history.
They need a serious shake up.
Farridge is the guy to do it.
He's never aspiring to be the PM.
Love him or loathe him, he is without doubt the most influential politician of his generation.
TM would kill for 10,% of his influence.
Farridge (that was his original pronunciation) doesn’t offer solutions to anything. He just likes to disrupt the present system. Nobody who has ever worked with him has a good word to say about him.

It is completely beyond me why anybody should be fooled by the buffoon. Try googling and you will dig up some very ‘interesting’ facts about him.

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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 09 May 2019, 13:31

Well done QB.
The penny has finally dropped.
He is what he is.
He has never offered solutions.
And BTW, just because it's on the Internet doesn't make it all true


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Re: Brexit

Post by anniec » 09 May 2019, 14:12

Ray Scully wrote:
09 May 2019, 02:33

Don't shoot the messenger Barney old chap..... anyway he is not someone I would wish to be associated with.
You have the luxury of choosing from a variety of parties, all backing Remain or variants of it. Those who voted leave, and would like that vote to actually mean something, have little or no choice.

I would prefer to vote for my usual party, but they have left me, not the other way round, so any alternative suggestions welcomed.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Manoverboard » 09 May 2019, 14:23

barney wrote:
09 May 2019, 11:35
Easy to find out Moby. The areas are huge. Dorset would more likely to be under the south west. You've got dozens to choose from under this system.
The lead Brexit is Ann Widdecombe
The lead Change UK is Rachel Johnson
The lead labour is Lord Adonis
And so in.......
It's not first past the post
The South West Region does include Dorset as you suggested ….

So .. on the voting paper do we vote for The Brexit Party, Ann Widdicombe or one of the other candidates listed … as per ?


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Re: Brexit

Post by Ray Scully » 09 May 2019, 16:01

barney wrote:
09 May 2019, 14:59
I'm assuming that you vote for the party Moby

Like millions of others , I've never bothered with the EU elections before.

I've researched the voting system and it does make sense after a couple of reads.

It's sort of proportional representation.

The largest amount of votes gets the first seat.
That original number is then divided by two.
It the same party is still the largest, they get the next seat and it's divided by two again.
If another party is then the largest amount, they get the next seat and their vote is divided by two.
and so on ...
It's impossible for one party to win all the seats available (six in our case)

We could for instance end up with
1 x Brexit
1 x Lib(anti)Dems
1 x Green
1 x Tory
1 x Labour
1 x UKIP

Or any permutation of above, depending on votes cast.
I note that the Conservatives don't appear to be putting out a Manifesto so they may be a total write off and their voters moving to Brexit or UKIP.
I'd guess that quite a few Labour voters will also move to Brexit or Change UK, depending on their views.

For the first time in memory, the EU elections are actually interesting

Brexit has thrown up some odd bedfellows on both sides and has also made stars out of Juncker and Tusk.
They will dine out on Brexit for the rest of their lives.
Barnier even fancies chucking his hat in the ring for another go at the Commissioner's job when Juncker goes.
What absolute arrogance.
He had one task to do and that was to negotiate the Brexit WA, which he failed miserably at but still see's himself as some sort of superstar
At least TM has the decency to eventually bug*er off :lol:
Get real Barney. Junker Tusk and Barnier have played a blinder We said we were leaving, and they have ensured that minimal damage will occur to their members. As for failure, suggest you look a little closer to home

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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 09 May 2019, 16:06

Don't get me wrong Ray. The most culpable by a million miles is our PM.
Juncker Tusk and Verhofstadt have got famous out of our government's incompetence.
Barnier on the other hand had one job to do and has so far failed.
I'm not blaming them for looking out for their own interests. Shame ours didn't do the same.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Manoverboard » 09 May 2019, 16:31

I have raised a separate Topic re Euro voting issues ….. some of the Brexit posts may be copied / moved over.

MobyMod :wave:


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Re: Brexit

Post by Ray Scully » 09 May 2019, 17:04

barney wrote:
09 May 2019, 16:06
Don't get me wrong Ray. The most culpable by a million miles is our PM.
Juncker Tusk and Verhofstadt have got famous out of our government's incompetence.
Barnier on the other hand had one job to do and has so far failed.
I'm not blaming them for looking out for their own interests. Shame ours didn't do the same.
Yes culable indeed
1) not realising the difficulties in trying to square a circle
2) not invoving the whole of parliament from the outset
3) triggering article 50 without a plan for proceeding
4) Agreeing to the ridicules separation of the withdrawal arrangements from a new treaty.

Perhaps Michael Gove would have done a better job ;-)

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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 09 May 2019, 17:46

Perhaps my Cockapoo would have done a better job, Ray :lol:

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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 09 May 2019, 19:53

Having watched brexit behind closed doors, on BBC 4, it absolutely showed how unprepared and unprofessional the UK side were from the beginning.
It's nothing short of a national disgrace.
They absolutely exploited the obvious parliamentary splits to the limit.


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Re: Brexit

Post by Ray Scully » 09 May 2019, 22:06

barney wrote:
09 May 2019, 17:46
Perhaps my Cockapoo would have done a better job, Ray :lol:
Wouldn't have had you down as a Cockerpoo man Barney, more a Rottweiler ;-)

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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 09 May 2019, 23:23

Nah.
I'm a big softy :wave:


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Re: Brexit

Post by anniec » 11 May 2019, 19:09

Interesting selection of comments made by various politicians before the referendum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu6PIUT8M-A

Sadly, they all seem to have succumbed to a mass outbreak of amnesia.

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Re: Brexit

Post by towny44 » 11 May 2019, 22:29

Don't know if you've discussed this already, but I had to laugh at Juncker's assertion that Cameron was wrong to stop him helping the remain campaign. Maybe if he had been allowed to the decision would have been much more clear cut, and we might just have avoided some of the current problems.
John

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Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 12 May 2019, 08:54

anniec wrote:
11 May 2019, 19:09
Interesting selection of comments made by various politicians before the referendum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu6PIUT8M-A

Sadly, they all seem to have succumbed to a mass outbreak of amnesia.
No comment!!! That clip just says it all about that disgraceful lot.
Of course that was before they realised the EU was not as popular with the British electorate as they had thought. Just shows how out of touch with the ordinary voter they are.

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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 12 May 2019, 09:41

anniec wrote:
11 May 2019, 19:09
Interesting selection of comments made by various politicians before the referendum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu6PIUT8M-A

Sadly, they all seem to have succumbed to a mass outbreak of amnesia.
I'm glad you posted that Annie.
At least I am now sure that it's not me who is going ga ga.

I saw Dave speak at Dover and I'm very sure what he said. :wave:

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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 12 May 2019, 16:12

Did anyone see Farage's interview with Andrew Marr this morning ?

He's being slaughtered in the MSM for his refusal to answer about trivial things he had said in the past.

Personally, I watched it live and thought he ripped Marr a new one.

He showed up the metropolitan elite for what they are, living in a bubble that the majority are not.
Rather than Marr engage on what is happening at the moment, he was obsessed with what was said years ago.

That is why they are out of touch and that is why a political maelstrom is on the way.

I said a few weeks back that I seriously think that Labour will win the next election with the Brexit party as the third biggest party.
I now think that they may be the official opposition.

I reckon that after May 23rd, there will be a splinter of the Tories with quite a few (50/60) defecting to a new group, as The Indies have done.
They know that they will be safe in their jobs until 2022, as the Indies are.
They will surpass the SNP as the third party and will qualify for funding.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... and-labour

If this Sunday Observer poll is any where near correct, then huge change is coming politically.

I said to our resident Remainers on this forum many times, be careful what you wish for.

By denying democracy, the genie is out of the bottle.

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Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 12 May 2019, 17:48

For too long the Remainers have had everything their own way arrogantly believing they could overturn the result of the referendum and we would all sit back and allow it. Looks like the backlash has started and they don't like it. Their cosy little bubble is bursting.

If Corbyn and his cronies do get in may heaven help us - Abbott, Lammy, Thornberry, Butler, McDonnell............OMG :o


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Re: Brexit

Post by Quizzical Bob » 12 May 2019, 23:16

barney wrote:
12 May 2019, 16:12
I said to our resident Remainers on this forum many times, be careful what you wish for.

By denying democracy, the genie is out of the bottle.
“denying democracy”

In what crazy world is having a vote ‘denying democracy’?

Get used to the situation: Brexit is a stupid idea that does not have the support of the British population.

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Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 13 May 2019, 08:11

Take no deal off the table take Remain off the table and have a referendum on the deals which are open to us. That would be democratic not trying to change the outcome of the 2016 referendum.


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Re: Brexit

Post by Ray Scully » 13 May 2019, 11:02

barney wrote:
He's being slaughtered in the MSM for his refusal to answer about trivial things he had said in the past.
Once again our views diverge Barney.. IMHO The funding of the NHS is not a trivial thing, brought home to me recently after an emergency stay of 9 days in hospital.
Last edited by david63 on 13 May 2019, 12:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 13 May 2019, 14:02

Quizzical Bob wrote:
12 May 2019, 23:16
barney wrote:
12 May 2019, 16:12
I said to our resident Remainers on this forum many times, be careful what you wish for.

By denying democracy, the genie is out of the bottle.
“denying democracy”

In what crazy world is having a vote ‘denying democracy’?

Get used to the situation: Brexit is a stupid idea that does not have the support of the British population.
That will be proven, either way, after the EU Parliament vote QB.
If the anti Brexit parties have a decisive victory, I'll quite happily concede that the majority don't want it to happen.
However, there is no evidence of that across the country with the exception of London.

Every faction 'claims' to speak for the majority.

"In what crazy world is having a vote ‘denying democracy’?"
In the crazy world where one group of people refused to acknowledge the result of the first one

Had your proposal been something like, hey, we lost, but we are going to campaign hard to rejoin when we win the next general election, I'd have total respect for your views.
I cannot however have any respect for an opinion that absolutely flies in the face of democracy and natural justice.
The assumption that our elected officials carry out the mandate given to them by the majority of the people is surely not too much to ask, is it ?

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