CC registration changes

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oldtimer
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CC registration changes

Post by oldtimer »

When registering your Credit Card before boarding you will now have to input your 4 digit code and also £50 debit will be put on your account to register your card. Cannot understand why, no explanation from P & O.

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Re: CC registration changes

Post by david63 »

It is not a £50 debit but a £50 pre-authorisation - exactly the same as you do when checking in at an hotel.

I would guess that there has been an increase in the number of credit/debit cards not being valid and causing problems later.


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Re: CC registration changes

Post by BrianI »

A pre-authorisation, not a debit, will be put on your account. This effectively ring fences some or your credit to ensure that you have sufficient funds to make a payment when it becomes due.
https://ask.pocruises.com/help/PO/fleet/pay_onboard
Most hotels operate a similar system.
Your card will not be charged until your final account is issued at the end of the cruise.
You should also be aware that once your on board account goes above £50, then the pre-authorisation will be increased accordingly on a daily basis.
This has always been the case but you may not be aware as the pre-authorisations do not appear on your account other than your remaining credit will be reduced.
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Re: CC registration changes

Post by Boris+ »

Whaaat?

Ok, so they are doing this £50 block and hoping that a passenger is going to spend that or more. What happens then if a passenger blocks the auto top and doesn't spend anything? Does the £50 block still stay on the card? Blasted cheek, and so is the business of adding the auto tip shortly after embarkation - before any length and appropriate standard of service is provided.

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Jan Rosser
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Re: CC registration changes

Post by Jan Rosser »

This was a topic on Facebook last week - people were getting very uptight about it - it was being presumed that you had to tell P&O your 4 digit code and they definitely weren't doing that and the arguments became very heated - for the life of me I don't see what all the fuss is about
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Re: CC registration changes

Post by BrianI »

The only difference I can see is that you now have to enter your 4 digit PIN when you check in just like any other purchase. Previously, they just swiped your card, so you could present any old card, not necessarily yours.
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Re: CC registration changes

Post by david63 »

Jan Rosser wrote: 12 Sep 2017, 21:13 for the life of me I don't see what all the fuss is about
Me neither

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Re: CC registration changes

Post by david63 »

Boris+ wrote: 12 Sep 2017, 21:08 Does the £50 block still stay on the card?
It will "roll off" after a week to ten days depending on the bank.
Boris+ wrote: 12 Sep 2017, 21:08 so is the business of adding the auto tip shortly after embarkation - before any length and appropriate standard of service is provided.
You can remove at any time up until the last night.


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Re: CC registration changes

Post by Boris+ »

The fuss is all about what I will call being taken advantage of. I firmly believe that people shouldn't be press-ganged into ( for instance) tipping. To add a charge for service which is yet to be provided is nothing short of extortion, and with the benefit of experience that's how I feel. In the past, when I've looked at an onboard account, the tip is normally applied at the start of a cruise. I most certainly do not approve of having to enter my pin, and doing so then means that during a cruise I shall have to check the account regularly for peace of mind. Previously, another passenger on a cruise has taken goods from an onboard shop and mistakenly given my suite number to charge the purchase to. It wasn't a cheap item, it might have been an innocent mistake, but I wasn't amused at how open the charging system was to such a situation.

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Re: CC registration changes

Post by david63 »

Boris+ wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 06:30 To add a charge for service which is yet to be provided is nothing short of extortion
I could possibly agree with that if you paid it at that time but you do not pay your account until the end of the cruise (certainly that is the system with P&O - other cruise lines may operate a different system)
Boris+ wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 06:30 I most certainly do not approve of having to enter my pin, and doing so then means that during a cruise I shall have to check the account regularly for peace of mind.
Do you mean your onboard account or your credit card account? Actually it makes no difference, it is exactly the same as now just with an added level of checking for a valid card. All charges to your account are pre-authorised each night now - with or without a pin and checking one's onboard account during the cruise is something that I have always done - mistakes do happen.

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Re: CC registration changes

Post by david63 »

I wonder if this entering pin number is something that the card processing company have enforced after the debacle earlier in the year.

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Re: CC registration changes

Post by barney »

I must admit that I didn't give it a thought on my last cruise.

The Lady asked me to authorise with my pin and I did.

I just assumed I'd always done that. :roll:

I really don't see it as an issue.

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Re: CC registration changes

Post by barney »

Boris+ wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 06:30 The fuss is all about what I will call being taken advantage of. I firmly believe that people shouldn't be press-ganged into ( for instance) tipping. To add a charge for service which is yet to be provided is nothing short of extortion, and with the benefit of experience that's how I feel. In the past, when I've looked at an onboard account, the tip is normally applied at the start of a cruise. I most certainly do not approve of having to enter my pin, and doing so then means that during a cruise I shall have to check the account regularly for peace of mind. Previously, another passenger on a cruise has taken goods from an onboard shop and mistakenly given my suite number to charge the purchase to. It wasn't a cheap item, it might have been an innocent mistake, but I wasn't amused at how open the charging system was to such a situation.
Boris, you do realise that you can take any tips off if you want to, don't you?

Personally, I've held the belief that if you can't afford the tips, you probably can't afford the cruise, but each to their own.

I know a guy down here in Kent who is absolutely loaded but always removes gratuities when cruising.
He did a Caribbean and back last year and not only didn't pay a penny in tips (24 nights) but was actually boastful of it.
I just think that's mean.

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Re: CC registration changes

Post by Mervyn and Trish »

I don't get the fuss. Hotels do this all the time. And surely the point is it protects us from someone else registering a bogus copy of our card. If I have to use my PIN in a supermarket why not on a cruise?


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Re: CC registration changes

Post by Boris+ »

Firstly, I'll admit that on our forthcoming cruise I am definitely going to remove the suit tips as soon as is practical on embarkation day. I fully intend to discreetly tip anyone who provides us with good service, and that at the end of the cruise if good service has been provided then envelopes with thank you notes and tips will be left in the suite before we go up for breakfast.

Secondly, I always check accounts daily, it's part of my routine, but I check the onboard account sometimes twice daily. That means that any faults are seen and corrected quickly, and we don't get involved for queueing with account queries at the end of a cruise.

What's the difference between giving a pin in a shop as opposed to an hotel or cruise ship? Simple, in a shop the transaction is over and done with, it's closed. With a ship or an hotel it's very much an open situation. Ignoring it is crass. Ok, the would hopefully be a track able trail, by t having had to tolerate theft before, I simply don't play that game.

Two sorts of people I don't like.... (a) people who had had reasonable service and don't tip, (b) those who tip loudly and brashly and brag about it. It should be done discreetly.

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Re: CC registration changes

Post by david63 »

Boris+ wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 09:46 What's the difference between giving a pin in a shop as opposed to an hotel or cruise ship? Simple, in a shop the transaction is over and done with, it's closed. With a ship or an hotel it's very much an open situation. Ignoring it is crass.
The answer is simple - if you don't like the system of using a CC then pay in cash - or perhaps don't use cruise lines that have this system.

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Re: CC registration changes

Post by Manoverboard »

I would suspect that it is being done to counteract increasing levels of fraud ... no big deal as far as I am concerned but then we don't travel on the edge financially.

ps ... Fred Lines hadn't put this in place as of Sept 8th 2017.
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Re: CC registration changes

Post by qbman1 »

I'm definitely with the "so what" brigade here. It is standard practice with most major hotels and I cannot see what the fuss is about. No one quibbles about entering a PIN when buying a bag of apples in Sainsbury's.....do they ?! I think it is a positive thing and helping to prevent fraud and protect us all. Get over it !

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qbman1 wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 10:06 I'm definitely with the "so what" brigade here. It is standard practice with most major hotels and I cannot see what the fuss is about. No one quibbles about entering a PIN when buying a bag of apples in Sainsbury's.....do they ?! I think it is a positive thing and helping to prevent fraud and protect us all. Get over it !
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Re: CC registration changes

Post by david63 »

qbman1 wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 10:06 No one quibbles about entering a PIN when buying a bag of apples in Sainsbury's.....do they ?!
No need - my card is "contactless" so just tap the card on the machine and job done!


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Re: CC registration changes

Post by Boris+ »

qbman1 wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 10:06 I'm definitely with the "so what" brigade here. It is standard practice with most major hotels and I cannot see what the fuss is about. No one quibbles about entering a PIN when buying a bag of apples in Sainsbury's.....do they ?! I think it is a positive thing and helping to prevent fraud and protect us all. Get over it !
When I make a shop purchase, whether it's contactless or pin entry that's ok, I take the items, I get a receipt, case closed.

I am not happy about giving anyone freedom with any of my accounts. Personally I think that anyone who has a cavalier attitude to their personal finance is a complete wally. Whether that person can afford it is irrelevant. So playing the 'what if' game, how would you like it if someone helped themself to pecuniary gain at your expense? Even worse, what if that gain through theft lead to someone obtaining and misusing drugs, then driving and killing somebody you care about?

Ok maybe the odds are against that, but the odds are still there.

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Re: CC registration changes

Post by towny44 »

Boris+ wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 12:15
qbman1 wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 10:06 I'm definitely with the "so what" brigade here. It is standard practice with most major hotels and I cannot see what the fuss is about. No one quibbles about entering a PIN when buying a bag of apples in Sainsbury's.....do they ?! I think it is a positive thing and helping to prevent fraud and protect us all. Get over it !
When I make a shop purchase, whether it's contactless or pin entry that's ok, I take the items, I get a receipt, case closed.

I am not happy about giving anyone freedom with any of my accounts. Personally I think that anyone who has a cavalier attitude to their personal finance is a complete wally. Whether that person can afford it is irrelevant. So playing the 'what if' game, how would you like it if someone helped themself to pecuniary gain at your expense? Even worse, what if that gain through theft lead to someone obtaining and misusing drugs, then driving and killing somebody you care about?

Ok maybe the odds are against that, but the odds are still there.
Since we are only discussing the cruise lines request for passengers to input their PIN to allow them to cover your spending whilst on board, then I assume when you refuse and they deny you boarding you will walk away without creating a fuss and, since you will be in breach of their T&Cs, without any refund or recourse to compensation?
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Re: CC registration changes

Post by suespud »

I wonder if Boris is TRYING to be controversial again, as suggested by another poster on a different thread.

Drama Queen ....would be more apt I think.
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Re: CC registration changes

Post by Dancing Queen »

I'm another 'so what'(er) it doesn't bother me when the gratuities are added to the account as I fully intend leaving them there, IF ( and this has never happened yet ) I were to receive bad service then I have the option to remove them before disembarking the ship so I certainly wouldn't be worrying about it on day one.

I may be quite strange but very often I don't even look at the final account until we arrive home, not really a lot of point as I would certainly not queue on the last morning to have something corrected, I would do one of two things .. contact the cruise line in question and if I got no joy there I would wait for the credit card statement to arrive and request them to withhold payment as it was a disputed account, it would then be up to the cruise line to prove I had made the purchase they were charging me for .. simples !!
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Re: CC registration changes

Post by Boris+ »

Towney, I won't refuse to provide the pin if asked, but will send a strongly worded email, and I will also both remove the auto tip and keep a watchful eye on my accounts.

To assume is foolish, and if cruise ships think I'm going to be spending (well what I call spending anyway) then they've got it badly wrong? We don't drink. the jewellery clothing and accessory offering is poor, any excursions are dealt with before leaving home, and we're neither bored nor vain enough to use the spa treatments, which leaves just about zero to spend on. Oh yes I forgot, the so called art gallery is hideous, and we can do our own photography.


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Re: CC registration changes

Post by Boris+ »

Not trying to be controversial at all, just the way it is. Anyway we don't go on holiday to go shopping etc. We go for a rest and relax. It's great, they haven't thought of charging for that!

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Re: CC registration changes

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Boris+ wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 14:20 t's great, they haven't thought of charging for that!
Oh yes they have - it's called the fare :lol: :lol:

I really cannot see what the difference is between "swiping" the card and entering your pin - both have the same end result, which is that the cruise line will take money from your account.

If you don't spend on anything and you remove the tips - what do you use your OBC (which is your own money anyway) on?

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Re: CC registration changes

Post by oldbluefox »

I can't see what the fuss is about. Every time I make a purchase I input my PIN number. I can't believe what a fuss it has created. It's not as if you are dealing with some dodgy backstreet firm.
As for the tips I leave them on unless I get poor service. I can't be bothered fussing around at Reception just so I can save a few pennies here and there, or at worst, deny tips to those who deserve them.
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Re: CC registration changes

Post by Gill W »

Well I'm another one who can't see why there is a kerfuffle about this.

I like to register my credit card because it makes it simple to pay my bill. At the end of the cruise, if there was a pre-authorisation that I didn't use, the indicator reserving the money will drop off after a week or two.

My account will only be debited with the money that I actually spend - inputting the PIN number at check in doesn't give them carte blache to take whatever they feel like!
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Re: CC registration changes

Post by Manoverboard »

There are of course situations when ' the customer ' may need to block expenditure and indeed to check their accounts on a daily basis ... that can arise when controls have been placed by the Bank on that persons spending habits. I do tend to get an interim statement a few days prior to disembarkation unless of course the Line in question offers a reliable Interactive TV service regarding Accounts.

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Re: CC registration changes

Post by david63 »

oldbluefox wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 14:31 It's not as if you are dealing with some dodgy backstreet firm.
Are you sure about that? :lol: :o :roll:

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Re: CC registration changes

Post by Mervyn and Trish »

I really really really don't get the fuss. Unless you pay a cash deposit which you have to top up as you spend they've always registered a credit card and automatically charged your account to it at the end of the cruise. You've always had to keep an eye to check it. The only change now seems to be added security by using chip and pin instead of swipe. How is that a problem?


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Re: CC registration changes

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david63 wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 14:30
Boris+ wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 14:20 t's great, they haven't thought of charging for that!
Oh yes they have - it's called the fare :lol: :lol:

I really cannot see what the difference is between "swiping" the card and entering your pin - both have the same end result, which is that the cruise line will take money from your account.

If you don't spend on anything and you remove the tips - what do you use your OBC (which is your own money anyway) on?
It's what we call Mickey Mouse money, and don't pay much attention to it really. It's not real money, not connected with any of my accounts, so mostly I can't be bothered with it.

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Re: CC registration changes

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oldbluefox wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 14:31 I can't see what the fuss is about. Every time I make a purchase I input my PIN number. I can't believe what a fuss it has created. It's not as if you are dealing with some dodgy backstreet firm.
As for the tips I leave them on unless I get poor service. I can't be bothered fussing around at Reception just so I can save a few pennies here and there, or at worst, deny tips to those who deserve them.
Sorry, a FEW pennies Foxy, I don't think so.

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Boris+ wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 17:11 It's what we call Mickey Mouse money, and don't pay much attention to it really. It's not real money, not connected with any of my accounts, so mostly I can't be bothered with it.
Oh yes it is real money - you have paid it along with your fare - don't be fooled into thinking that it is some "freebe" that the cruise line is giving you, it is your own money. If you are not bothered about several hundred pounds then I can assure you that I most certainly am.

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Re: CC registration changes

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Boris+ wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 17:11
david63 wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 14:30
Boris+ wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 14:20 t's great, they haven't thought of charging for that!
Oh yes they have - it's called the fare :lol: :lol:

I really cannot see what the difference is between "swiping" the card and entering your pin - both have the same end result, which is that the cruise line will take money from your account.

If you don't spend on anything and you remove the tips - what do you use your OBC (which is your own money anyway) on?
It's what we call Mickey Mouse money, and don't pay much attention to it really. It's not real money, not connected with any of my accounts, so mostly I can't be bothered with it.
Dear Lord I thought I had heard it all until reading this last statement - as John McEnroe would say "you cannot be serious" the OBC can run into hundreds of pounds and cannot be described as mickey mouse money - I'm going for a lie down :crazy:
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Re: CC registration changes

Post by Boris+ »

Seriously, you can't even get a decent pair of earrings for a couple of £hundred. The greater majority of ships don't have watches worth the bother. A couple of Cruises ago on Celebrity, they did have one Snoopy watch, and we were interested, but by the time we'd thought about it, we missed it.


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Re: CC registration changes

Post by Boris+ »

Ok David, if we're ever on the same cruise you can have it!

You say it's part of the fare, but there's a long time between paying and sailing. We just pay the bill and write off the obc.
Last edited by Boris+ on 13 Sep 2017, 18:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: CC registration changes

Post by Mervyn and Trish »

I can't believe someone willing to spend hundreds on ear rings is bothered about a £50 reserve being put on their credit card that will be cancelled if they don't spend it. This has to be a wind up!

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Re: CC registration changes

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david63 wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 17:37
Boris+ wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 17:11 It's what we call Mickey Mouse money, and don't pay much attention to it really. It's not real money, not connected with any of my accounts, so mostly I can't be bothered with it.
Oh yes it is real money - you have paid it along with your fare - don't be fooled into thinking that it is some "freebe" that the cruise line is giving you, it is your own money. If you are not bothered about several hundred pounds then I can assure you that I most certainly am.
And me. Notes, no coins please to account number.....
Last edited by Stephen on 13 Sep 2017, 18:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: CC registration changes

Post by Jan Rosser »

Stephen wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 18:15
david63 wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 17:37
Boris+ wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 17:11 It's what we call Mickey Mouse money, and don't pay much attention to it really. It's not real money, not connected with any of my accounts, so mostly I can't be bothered with it.
Oh yes it is real money - you have paid it along with your fare - don't be fooled into thinking that it is some "freebe" that the cruise line is giving you, it is your own money. If you are not bothered about several hundred pounds then I can assure you that I most certainly am.
And me. Notes, no coins please to account number.....
Don't forget to give the pin number too :lolno:
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Re: CC registration changes

Post by suespud »

Boris+ wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 14:17 Towney, I won't refuse to provide the pin if asked, but will send a strongly worded email, and I will also both remove the auto tip and keep a watchful eye on my accounts.

To assume is foolish, and if cruise ships think I'm going to be spending (well what I call spending anyway) then they've got it badly wrong? We don't drink.the jewellery clothing and accessory offering is poor, any excursions are dealt with before leaving home, and we're neither bored nor vain enough to use the spa treatments, which leaves just about zero to spend on. Oh yes I forgot, the so called art gallery is hideous, and we can do our own photography.
You sure about that, it's not what you have said in the past.....

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Re: CC registration changes

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Boris+ wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 17:59 Ok David, if we're ever on the same cruise you can have it!

You say it's part of the fare, but there's a long time between paying and sailing. We just pay the bill and write off the obc.
More money than sense....... :roll:

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Re: CC registration changes

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Boris+ wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 17:57 Seriously, you can't even get a decent pair of earrings for a couple of £hundred. The greater majority of ships don't have watches worth the bother. A couple of Cruises ago on Celebrity, they did have one Snoopy watch, and we were interested, but by the time we'd thought about it, we missed it.
Sorry to disagree with you Boris but I don't call Tag, Rolex, Gucci and Raymond Wiel to name but a few watches not worth the bother, at least not for men.
Last edited by Stephen on 13 Sep 2017, 18:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: CC registration changes

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Jan Rosser wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 18:17
Stephen wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 18:15
david63 wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 17:37
Boris+ wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 17:11 It's what we call Mickey Mouse money, and don't pay much attention to it really. It's not real money, not connected with any of my accounts, so mostly I can't be bothered with it.
Oh yes it is real money - you have paid it along with your fare - don't be fooled into thinking that it is some "freebe" that the cruise line is giving you, it is your own money. If you are not bothered about several hundred pounds then I can assure you that I most certainly am.
And me. Notes, no coins please to account number.....
Don't forget to give the pin number too :lolno:

To you, you must be joking. The way you spend money I'd end up being your play thing to pay off the bill :D


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Re: CC registration changes

Post by Boris+ »

Stephen wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 18:23
Boris+ wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 17:57 Seriously, you can't even get a decent pair of earrings for a couple of £hundred. The greater majority of ships don't have watches worth the bother. A couple of Cruises ago on Celebrity, they did have one Snoopy watch, and we were interested, but by the time we'd thought about it, we missed it.
Sorry to disagree with you Boris but I don't call Tag, Rolex, Gucci and Raymond Wiel to name but a few watches not worth the bother, at least not for men.
[/quot

I'd only bother with Rolex from that group. But I've not seen things like PP, nor Cartier.


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Re: CC registration changes

Post by Boris+ »

Hey Sue,

Lighten up kiddo or change the record.

Just for the record, it's a normal coffee or diy tea with breakfast, and juice. Same at lunch, hot drinks with afternoon tea, and usually a soft drink with dinner. We don't frequent bars. We normally ignore the embarkation bottle of fizz in the suite, and any bottles given to us go home with us. The drinks in the fridge are always soft drinks. That's what we call not drinking.

Everyone changes over time, even you could. We don't want now what we used to, and the change is quite refreshing.

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suespud
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Re: CC registration changes

Post by suespud »

Boris+ wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 18:43 Hey Sue,

Lighten up kiddo or change the record.

Just for the record, it's a normal coffee or diy tea with breakfast, and juice. Same at lunch, hot drinks with afternoon tea, and usually a soft drink with dinner. We don't frequent bars. We normally ignore the embarkation bottle of fizz in the suite, and any bottles given to us go home with us. The drinks in the fridge are always soft drinks. That's what we call not drinking.

Everyone changes over time, even you could. We don't want now what we used to, and the change is quite refreshing.
What record would that be Boris...?

It's quite obvious to everyone how YOU change the record quite often, if you "forget" things you have said in the past.




I made a promise in 2012 that I would go on a cruise and have a different cocktail every day. Well, I did - I can remember the first one (Absolut Elegance), then after that I can't remember what they were, apart from the fact that I don't like Singapore Slings.

I do know that apparently I had a wonderful time!!!

Em :clap:


Of course, people do and can change over time.

Or.....SAY they have changed, when they slip up on something they said in the previous posts..... :roll:

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Re: CC registration changes

Post by suespud »

Boris+ wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 14:17 Towney, I won't refuse to provide the pin if asked, but will send a strongly worded email, and I will also both remove the auto tip and keep a watchful eye on my accounts.

To assume is foolish, and if cruise ships think I'm going to be spending (well what I call spending anyway) then they've got it badly wrong? We don't drink. the jewellery clothing and accessory offering is poor, any excursions are dealt with before leaving home, and we're neither bored nor vain enough to use the spa treatments, which leaves just about zero to spend on. Oh yes I forgot, the so called art gallery is hideous, and we can do our own photography.
WOW!!!!
You really have changed Boris......or have a REALLY BAD MEMORY.... :crazy:



Re: Auto tipping
#13Post by Boris+ » 06 Feb 2013, 20:55
I did once overhear a couple onboard discussing this tipping situation - and they decided to go and remove the auto-tipping. A couple of nights later there they were in the shops onboard - returning a piece of jewellery which they had bought at the start of the cruise, on the excuse that it didn't suit and didn't come up to expectations ..... and yes, they had a refund against their onboard account.

It did make me wonder if I had got it wrong - but no, as far as I am concerned the auto-tip doesn't even get discussed, it just gets paid (and stuff which has been bought onboard goes safely home).



So you USED to pay your tips....and you USED to buy stuff on board...... :eh: :crazy:

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Meg 50
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Re: CC registration changes

Post by Meg 50 »

Boris+ wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 17:11
david63 wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 14:30
Boris+ wrote: 13 Sep 2017, 14:20 t's great, they haven't thought of charging for that!
Oh yes they have - it's called the fare :lol: :lol:

I really cannot see what the difference is between "swiping" the card and entering your pin - both have the same end result, which is that the cruise line will take money from your account.

If you don't spend on anything and you remove the tips - what do you use your OBC (which is your own money anyway) on?
It's what we call Mickey Mouse money, and don't pay much attention to it really. It's not real money, not connected with any of my accounts, so mostly I can't be bothered with it.
Mickey Mouse money??????????????

Our Mickey Mouse Money last cruise was £800!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

our end of cruise account was in credit - though we tried really hard to use it all - Christmas shopping and all sorts!
Meg
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