Please Define Disabled?

[cruisecatcher]

David
yes one size does not fit all, but there must surely be steps taken to reduce the risk to passengers
Nobody can factor in the unexpected or it would not be unexpected, my view is that if you are disabled enough to need help from a n other on a permananet basis, then perhaps a cruise ship is not right place for them to be

I know many many people will no doubt will start to get all excited about the points I raised but to me people booking a cruise, when they are not mobile enough, under their own steam , to move freeley about the ship and evacuate themselves in a proper fashiopn are going to be a hinderance. this is a simple fact, granted people dont like this fact, but whichever argument you present, the truth is disabled people in wheelchairs and those who use scooters coz they cant walk are going to be a danger, and no amount of Political correctness and tip toeing around the issue is going to change that fact.
so the question remains , how disabled is a person ,before they should not be allowed to board a ship or a flight, as a precaution and for the safety of others?
like I said pages ago, start asking the hard questions and stop being to scared to raise them and we may just get a sensible debate

What about people whose literary skills are severely compromised (to pick a subject that a moment's self-awareness should cause to resonate) such that they may mis-read the safety instructions?

Transport and general safety procedures aren't designed around the fit and healthy. That would be silly. The rules and procedures are designed such that those who can SAFELY offer a helping hand can do so. To imagine a society where only fit people could take advantage of life's opportunities is an absolute abhorrence, and no pleading of 'I'm just asking' can camouflage such an unpleasant view. To convince us of that you'd need at least an average level of ability with the written word, and that's as capricious a gift as mobility.

[towny44]

David
yes one size does not fit all, but there must surely be steps taken to reduce the risk to passengers
Nobody can factor in the unexpected or it would not be unexpected, my view is that if you are disabled enough to need help from a n other on a permananet basis, then perhaps a cruise ship is not right place for them to be

I know many many people will no doubt will start to get all excited about the points I raised but to me people booking a cruise, when they are not mobile enough, under their own steam , to move freeley about the ship and evacuate themselves in a proper fashiopn are going to be a hinderance. this is a simple fact, granted people dont like this fact, but whichever argument you present, the truth is disabled people in wheelchairs and those who use scooters coz they cant walk are going to be a danger, and no amount of Political correctness and tip toeing around the issue is going to change that fact.
so the question remains , how disabled is a person ,before they should not be allowed to board a ship or a flight, as a precaution and for the safety of others?
like I said pages ago, start asking the hard questions and stop being to scared to raise them and we may just get a sensible debate

What about people whose literary skills are severely compromised (to pick a subject that a moment's self-awareness should cause to resonate) such that they may mis-read the safety instructions?

Transport and general safety procedures aren't designed around the fit and healthy. That would be silly. The rules and procedures are designed such that those who can SAFELY offer a helping hand can do so. To imagine a society where only fit people could take advantage of life's opportunities is an absolute abhorrence, and no pleading of 'I'm just asking' can camouflage such an unpleasant view. To convince us of that you'd need at least an average level of ability with the written word, and that's as capricious a gift as mobility.

Now that reply gets my vote for a Pulitzer prize for putdowns.

[RB1961]

Hello,

My wife is a wheelchair user. I sort of get what DK is saying and so does she. However until the time comes that we are not able to cruise as wheelchair users are deemed a hinderance in an evacuation we will continue to do so. But it begs the question where will it end. Will we be stopped from going any higher than the ground floor just in case there is an emergency.

I was wondering if there were any disabled/wheelchair users on the Concordia and if there were did they get off?

Also has any one on this forum actually had to abandon ship.

I won't post again on this thread ..life is to short.

RB

[unicus]

“Please Define Disabled?”

Oxford English dictionary;
adjective: disabled
1. (of a person) having a physical or mental condition that limits their movements, senses, or activities.

Is that helpful? Probably not, maybe the Equality Act 2010 will help. https://www.gov.uk/definition-of-disabi ... y-act-2010

Unfortunately disability is a complex issue and neither of those definitions will suffice. This is a complex issue and is why people specialise in the subject to write policies etc. (my wife included) so that everyone else doesn’t have to (which is fortunate). This specialist knowledge is then used to help design ships and to write procedures etc. so that cruise ships are as safe for everyone as can be reasonably expected.

Now if the well thought about designs/procedures regarding disability and mobility difficulties on cruise ships does not agree with your personal beliefs on the issues and you find it too much of a risk then don’t go on a cruise ship, nobody is forcing you. Of course, as difficult as it is, you could study the disability issues yourself or just trust the people who have.

On a personal note when I am on a cruise I am far more able than the vast majority on the ship (passengers & crew) and my son is one of if not the most severely disabled passengers. How would my son fare in an emergency? On his own not well at all, he knows that risk and takes it every day of his life not just on a cruise. But on a cruise he’s not alone, I would be there and together we’d fare better than most, no question. These are our risks to take.

Would he/we/his wheelchair be a hindrance to other passengers? No more so than all the other obstacles & people littering a ship except that I am not able to help other passengers less able than myself which is something I’d always do.

As far as I’m concerned cruise ships are a very safe place for people with very different levels of ability and as long as everyone is honest with the cruise lines so that they can ensure that the safe levels of abilities are on board then that’s fine. It’s what we pay them for, to keep us safe, and the cruise lines do have a good record of doing that. I think statistics would probably show you are more likely to have an accident on your way to a cruise ship than on it.

[HK phooey]

Why has my post questioning whether misread should have a hypen been removed?

[Romig1]

Why has my post questioning whether misread should have a hypen been removed?

Possibly because the post it was referring to/ replying to has also been removed and thus makes no sense on it's own?

[HK phooey]

No it hasn't you buffoon

[Dark Knight]

Oh what fun
seems plod has stuck their size 13's in

shame I was starting to enjoy myself

[HK phooey]

Don't worry Batty, when I'm a moderator I'll only delete the boring stuff, or posts that bang on about Cunard and boarding schools

[Dark Knight]

now now Convict, you cant go around upsetting middle England,the social climbers and the snobs
else there would only be about 5 of us on here

[HK phooey]

I hope this doesn't make me a snob, but I've had to start shopping at Waitrose because Clarissa's pony simply won't eat Tesco value hay

[Dark Knight]

is the pony disabled ?
if not what is the relevance to this thread?

[Romig1]

No it hasn't you buffoon

Oops.. my apologies dear, I could swear it had gone when I looked (twice) at lunchtime!

Ok, my second theory, is that some people can "give it" - but not "take it" ?

[wolfie]

About as much relevance DK as your posts on disabled travellers, be it cruise ship, train, plane or bus.

For good measure why not include, ferries, pony and cart, taxis, hovercraft, helicopters, seaplanes, rickshaws, pedibikes, etc. We have done all of them and my OH has a mobility problem.

Does river tubing count?

[HK phooey]

Should severely disabled people be allowed to cruise? Of course they should and if they should need assistance in an emergency then they should get it, whether it be from crew or fellow passengers, that is just basic human decency. Passengers on cruise ships come in all shapes and sizes and a wide range of ages. It is abhorrent to imagine a world in which only the fittest are allowed to take advantage of the luxuries in life in case they are inconvenienced by their fellow human beings that are less fortunate.

[Dark Knight]

Bravo that Canine
excellent point ,well made and succinctly put. without any playground histrionics or childish hissy fits
if others had taken your lead then perhaps we could have had a sensible debate

Encore....encore...encore

[Jan Rosser]

At last an answer I can wholeheartedly support - well said HK

[towny44]

Bravo that Canine
excellent point ,well made and succinctly put. without any playground histrionics or childish hissy fits
if others had taken your lead then perhaps we could have had a sensible debate

Encore....encore...encore

Do I detect a touch of hypocrisy in this post.

[Dancing Queen]

I got chatting to a couple on QE last year at lifeboat drill who both used mobility scooters, they were telling me it was their first time with Cunard ( having always sailed with P&O in the past )

When P&O brought the new restrictions in re which cabins were accessible for scooters/chairs etc they were no longer able to book a standard balcony cabin so had jumped ship because at the time ( and this may well have changed now ) Cunard had no such restrictions.

To get to the point, me being a nosy so and so I asked if they were totally reliant on the scooters or if they could walk ( I was under the impression there had to be an able bodied person to accompany them but that was just my take on it, I really have no idea ) as it happened both of them could walk short distances that led me to ask my next question ...what in the event of an emergency would happen as they would obviously have a few problems as lifts can't used.

For anyone who doesn't know there are staff designated to assist anyone who would require assistance and if necessary they are transported using a hammock type chair, I would also imagine ( although I don't know ) that there would also be a different route used to that which other passengers would use.

I stand corrected if any of this is incorrect I am just repeating what I was told, let's hope it never has to be put to the test.

[Manoverboard]

Why has my post questioning whether misread should have a hypen been removed?

Having just read it for the first time I would suggest to you that it was deleted because it was ' Off Topic ', not to mention childish, on a serious Cruise related Topic.

Regards MobyMod

[emjay45]

Should severely disabled people be allowed to cruise? Of course they should and if they should need assistance in an emergency then they should get it, whether it be from crew or fellow passengers, that is just basic human decency. Passengers on cruise ships come in all shapes and sizes and a wide range of ages. It is abhorrent to imagine a world in which only the fittest are allowed to take advantage of the luxuries in life in case they are inconvenienced by their fellow human beings that are less fortunate.

I'm afraid I think that's probably the ONLY post you should have posted on this thread.

Bravo that Canine
excellent point ,well made and succinctly put. without any playground histrionics or childish hissy fits
if others had taken your lead then perhaps we could have had a sensible debate

Encore....encore...encore

Do I detect a touch of hypocrisy in this post.

More than a touch IMO towney.

[HK phooey]

Why has my post questioning whether misread should have a hypen been removed?

Having just read it for the first time I would suggest to you that it was deleted because it was ' Off Topic ', not to mention childish, on a serious Cruise related Topic.

Regards MobyMod

It was no more childish than the post attacking DK's literary skills. I was merely pointing out that people that live in glass houses etc.

Emjay, just skip through my posts, there 99% nonsense anyway.

[david63]

Are we going to put this topic back on track - or should I lock it?

[wolfie]

I got chatting to a couple on QE last year at lifeboat drill who both used mobility scooters, they were telling me it was their first time with Cunard ( having always sailed with P&O in the past )

When P&O brought the new restrictions in re which cabins were accessible for scooters/chairs etc they were no longer able to book a standard balcony cabin so had jumped ship because at the time ( and this may well have changed now ) Cunard had no such restrictions.

To get to the point, me being a nosy so and so I asked if they were totally reliant on the scooters or if they could walk ( I was under the impression there had to be an able bodied person to accompany them but that was just my take on it, I really have no idea ) as it happened both of them could walk short distances that led me to ask my next question ...what in the event of an emergency would happen as they would obviously have a few problems as lifts can't used.

For anyone who doesn't know there are staff designated to assist anyone who would require assistance [/b]and if necessary they are transported using a hammock type chair, I would also imagine ( although I don't know ) that there would also be a different route used to that which other passengers would use.

I stand corrected if any of this is incorrect I am just repeating what I was told, let's hope it never has to be put to the test.

It's the reason that you can register with reception that X or Y MAY need assistance, in the event of an emergency, if you are not in the cabin with them at the time. The cabin steward always seems to know; reception must make them aware. A good system, which relieves worry, should you not be allowed back to your cabin in an emergency to assist.

[ITWA Travel Writer]

David, having started this thread I think it has probably run its course. Even as I do enjoy the banter, between the older sea dogs, I think that the salient points as regarding defining disability have been pretty well exhausted.

As a suggestion, maybe a “Crow’s Nest” or a “Brodie’s” pub category might be a good resting place for the comedian members to post and continue their amusing posts.

So perhaps it should be locked now.