Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

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david63
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Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#1

Post by david63 »

It has been a while since tipping was the issue of the day but auto tipping or as it is now called "Service Reward Scheme" seem to be getting a lot of air time on social media.

Last week there was a lengthy discussion about this in CC where some claim to have been told that the crew are now on a "good" wage and that tipping is not needed to bring their pay up to a reasonable level and that any cash they receive they can keep along with all the old stories and arguments about whether you should leave it in place/remove/include it in the price. At the end of the day I don't think that anyone, certainly not me, was any the wiser as to what goes on and how the system works.

This week on FB there is a photo of a form that has, allegedly, been left in cabins of those who have opted out of "auto tipping" asking them (well more like pressurising them) into reconsidering having removed them and asking the reason why they have been removed.

In some ways these two items appear at odds with one another. On the one hand the "official" line is that it does not matter or make any difference to the crew if you remove auto tips and then on the other hand they are trying to get everyone to pay them.

I am all in favour of finding out why some passengers are removing them (although like the rest of us I suspect that P&O are more than aware of the reasons) but I am not sure that using such strong arm tactics is the right way to go.

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GillD46
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#2

Post by GillD46 »

I am afraid I simply don’t believe that crew members are well paid to start with, unless they have had a MASSIVE increase of salary in recent years - a few years ago I saw a salary slip! Lots of crew members on P&O, Princess and Cunard have told us they MUST hand in any tip given in cash, up to the value of the daily charge, so unless they are all in cahoots, I feel they are telling the truth. No matter, we shall continue to pay it, and add a little in cash if we feel so inclined.

It would be soooo much easier to have them included in the cruise price, then all these queries would stop.
Gill

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Ian Perth
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#3

Post by Ian Perth »

For me it’s simple, you know the expected tips when you book a cruise so you pay the staff what’s due for good service. If you have a genuine issue then raise it and in my experience it’s addressed. I’ve cruised with Po for years and have no complaints. I do however have issues with the way some staff are treated, I’ve seen many examples of really bad behaviour from customers, it’s these people who in my view, not everyone I should add, are the ones that remove tips. I don’t see this as pressure from Po, in fact I see it as positive that they are interested enough to support staff. I know of one couple who complained every night and remover tips on a 35 night cruise and then had the audacity to turn up on the last night, handed a envelope to the staff, which was then opened and found to have a 10 Euro note. I do think in this example they would not bother completing this questionnaire but at least the company are try to understand what the issue has been. Well done Po for looking after the family, because that the way the staff treat us, as family. Shame on people who don’t tip for no good reason. That’s me got it off my chest, feel a lot better now, sorry.


CaroleF
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#4

Post by CaroleF »

I don't believe anyone really knows exactly what happens as regards auto tips and tips given to the crew individually by the passengers. There are a lot of people, particularly on CC who seem to think they know. Some people say that tips should be included in the fare, yes I think so too, but the fact remains that they are not at the moment as far as P&O are concerned. So people saying they will not tip because the tip should be included are just depriving the crew, not P&O. We leave Auto tips on and will continue to do so - so much easier than having to sort out cash and envelopes. I do understand that some people have saved really hard to afford a cruise and that the extra cost of tips is really difficult for them.

I agree with Gill, the sooner tips are included in the price the better.

Carole


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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#5

Post by Whynd1 »

I agree with Carole overall, we don't know what happens to the tips once they are handed over.
I for one am heartily fed up with the whole issue.
On our recent cruise I filled out the form to remove the auto tips and handed envelopes out, I don't have a problem with that and there's more in there than a 10 euro note. We didn't have any other letters concerning that.
What annoys me is the cabin steward who barely speaks to you and then asks for your help in the hotel department when filling out the form.
The reception manager did say us at the loyalty lunch that the crew have had the terms and conditions altered and that they are able to have shorter contracts.

I must wish the tips were added into the overall price of the cruise but until then I will carry on doing what I have done in the past.


poole boy
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#6

Post by poole boy »

when we booked our cruise to iceland this june nearly 2 years ago the tips were £5 a night they have now gone up twice to £7 a night, we have always said that tips should be included in the price of a cruise so we will be paying the price we booked at of £5 a night regardless of what p&o say although we have already received an email from p&o saying we can pay as much or as little as we want :)

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Mervyn and Trish
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#7

Post by Mervyn and Trish »

I have two issues.

First is the dramatic rise in the auto tips over the last two years. I think that indicates the system isn't working, more and more people are removing tips and the amount is being increased to compensate. That will continue to happen as more and more people are new cruisers, unfamiliar with the tipping culture and taking the "I've paid for my cruise I don't expect to pay again" attitude. They remove the auto tips on day one irrespective of service and have no intention of tipping manually.

My other issue is this story that if staff fail to secure enough "Excellents" their tips are withheld. If I have paid my tips because I thought the service was good enough I don't expect to have them withheld because someone else didn't agree.


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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#8

Post by Whynd1 »

That's part of my issue, if I think my service was good or very good they don't get the whole amount unless it's excellent.
The other issue is that cabin stewards have so many cabins to service that some things are getting missed.
When you look closely there's dust on the top of the TV and for days although my shower was cleaned it wasn't up to an excellent standard. In fact in the first day the shower head fell off on to the top of my head !!

Lindsey

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david63
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#9

Post by david63 »

My view, at the moment, is that on our next cruise I will reduce the auto tip to what it was before the latest increase and the difference will be paid in cash to those who we think deserve it/have earned it - basically what we would have done anyway.

That way everyone is happy - the crew get their service award, the cabin steward et al get a cash bonus and we end up paying the same, and we make the point that we are not happy with the increase.
Last edited by david63 on 05 Apr 2018, 12:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Manoverboard
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#10

Post by Manoverboard »

Most companies operate an incentive scheme and pay a ' bonus ' to those staff who excel.

Quite right too but does the money to fund this come from the P&O treasure chest or does it come from a tipping pool.

I have no problem either way but if it come from the staff's tipping pool then it should help to raise the levels of those who don't get any bonus to those that do. It is inevitable that some staff are better than others and their remuneration should reflect this, there is no better way of judging their efforts than the comments from their customers. Some may lie or distort but the average overall will be fair.
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#11

Post by daib GC »

It is always a big issue on CC as there is one poster who obsessed with not paying tips and goes on and on about the subject. He/she has a warped view of the whole subject and clearly works on the principal that if I say this enough times it must be true.

So consequently when it comes up it goes on and on and on.

It is only a hot topic because he/she will never let it go.

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barney
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#12

Post by barney »

It's easier just to leave it on, but thinking about it, that may not be the sensible way.

On our next cruise, a fourteen nighter, the Cabin steward will attend every day. so that's £98 and reasonable value, assuming they do their job correctly, which is not always the case
But with reference to the MDR waiters, we will probably eat in there no more than six or seven times. (speciality & buffet the other days)
If we eat in the MDR six times, the waiters get £98 divided by six which is over £16 a night in tips.
Good money by anyone's standards. I'd never tip £16 on a land based meal, no matter how good the service or food.

So, I'm waivering on this subject.
I always used to say just leave it on as it's less to concern yourself about.
Now, I'm considering paying the cabin steward directly and the MDR waiters as I see fit.
I'll admit that I've never tipped a waiter in the speciality restaurants. I've never really given it a thought as auto tips were on.
Of course, they don't get a cut of that, do they?
At the best part of £200 for a fortnights holiday, it's getting to the point where they are in danger of killing the golden goose.

They could of course, just include it in the price.
£1,600 per person or £1,698 per person won't put anyone off booking, will it?

How many on here also do land based holidays?
If you had a week, all inclusive in Spain, would you tip the chambermaid £100 on leaving?
I doubt it.
I usually put 25 Euros in an envelope and I never tip the bar staff, although they work very hard and generally give good service.
The dining is usually buffet style with waiters serving your drinks.
I've tipped the drinks waiter at the end of the week, but again 20 euros or so.
Last edited by barney on 05 Apr 2018, 15:29, edited 1 time in total.
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GillD46
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#13

Post by GillD46 »

The kind of land holidays we take usually are either inclusive of tips, or if not, we tip 10% of the cost of the meal - every meal. Unless in the USA when it would be 20%. So generally, it would be quite a considerable amount, we do tip the chamber maid, though I must confess, not often on a daily basis. Bar staff we round up the drinks bill.

At a nice restaurant here tips can be very costly, again depending in the quality of restaurant and therefore the price.
Gill

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towny44
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#14

Post by towny44 »

I have to confess that I am beginning to question the need for tipping since I now suspect that all it does is reduce the amount that P&O have to put into their service reward programme.
I was always an advocate for paying the gratuities when I believed that it was necessary to provide an adequate wage for stewards and wait staff, to compensate for them having a much lower contract rate than other staff. This I no longer feel to be accurate, and our steward seemed to confirm this on our last cruise and also indicated that P&O guarantee a minimum reward. Despite repeated requests for clarity from P&O by a number of forum members on CC, their answers have only served to create even more confusion, with comments about how cash tips are handled, and P&O making this statement "they are paid an above industry average wage which is "fair and proportional"."
The latest latter being sent out on ships to passengers removing the auto tip, asking for clarification on why it has been deleted and trying to twist their arm to re-instate it, seems to support my view that they are worried they will have to top up out of their profits.
Therefore my view now is that those who continue to pay the auto tip will be asked for regular rises as the numbers who remove the tips altogether increase. So until P&O include tips in their cruise fares I am very tempted to join the non payers.
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Stephen
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#15

Post by Stephen »

We take land base holidays as well, but manage to avoid all this tipping nonsence.........by doing self catering :thumbup:

Although I have noticed when we are away Mrs S is starting to leave slips of paper under the glass of my drinks with 'table service and a £' written on it which is a little concerning :?

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Manoverboard
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#16

Post by Manoverboard »

Cruise Line tips, even the US ones, at the required rate are the lowest we pay.

Our Coaching Tours and / or Riverboat Cruises / US Hotel based are considerably more expensive than good ol P&O.

So stop analysing and simply pay up :wtf:
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Stephen
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#17

Post by Stephen »

Manoverboard wrote: 05 Apr 2018, 17:55
Cruise Line tips, even the US ones, at the required rate are the lowest we pay.

Our Coaching Tours and / or Riverboat Cruises / US Hotel based are considerably more expensive than good ol P&O.

So stop analysing and simply pay up :wtf:
Unless I've missed something, I don't remember the government passing a law on gratuities

Three words......discretionary not compulsory :x
Last edited by Stephen on 05 Apr 2018, 18:33, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#18

Post by Whynd1 »

I suspect it's been raised again as it's just gone up to £7 pp per day.
As Merv said we have had quite a few rises in quick succession.

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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#19

Post by oldbluefox »

For goodness sake P&O just include tips in the headline price and be done with it. Then you can advertise it as 'tips included'. Not difficult is it?

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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#20

Post by towny44 »

Manoverboard wrote: 05 Apr 2018, 17:55
Cruise Line tips, even the US ones, at the required rate are the lowest we pay.

Our Coaching Tours and / or Riverboat Cruises / US Hotel based are considerably more expensive than good ol P&O.

So stop analysing and simply pay up :wtf:
Moby, If I believed that the staff needed my tips to bring them up to a reasonable wage, and that everyone paid them, and that the increases were not just to top up the cruise lines profits, then I would be more likely to agree with you.
Until then, cynic that I am, the jury is still out as to what I will do.
John

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Onelife
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#21

Post by Onelife »

I was delighted to hear P&O have increased gratuities again, hopefully when it goes up to £10 pppd we'll all come to our senses and stop all this auto-tipping nonsense.

If P&O and other cruise lines say "all gratuities" are distributed amongst staff then why do cruise lines feel the need to place gagging orders on their staff... Actually.l'm not really intersted in hearing any reasons because making up staff wages on the expectancy of tips is totally wrong in my book.

The whole hospitality industry has become so relient on tips that you'll soon have to forgo your puddings to pay for them......10-15 % service charges.....sod off l say.

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Stephen
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#22

Post by Stephen »

Onelife wrote: 05 Apr 2018, 21:36
I was delighted to hear P&O have increased gratuities again, hopefully when it goes up to £10 pppd we'll all come to our senses and stop all this auto-tipping nonsense.

If P&O and other cruise lines say "all gratuities" are distributed amongst staff then why do cruise lines feel the need to place gagging orders on their staff... Actually.l'm not really intersted in hearing any reasons because making up staff wages on the expectancy of tips is totally wrong in my book.

The whole hospitality industry has become so relient on tips that you'll soon have to forgo your puddings to pay for them......10-15 % service charges.....sod off l say.
:clap: :thumbup:

No bu99er tipped me when I started working and was on cr*p wages. I was just glad to be working and earning something. If I wanted more money I had to put in the extra hours of hard graft.

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Manoverboard
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#23

Post by Manoverboard »

I used to get tips and really appreciated them ... when I wor a paperboy :lol:
towny44 wrote: 05 Apr 2018, 18:55
Moby, If I believed that the staff needed my tips to bring them up to a reasonable wage, and that everyone paid them, and that the increases were not just to top up the cruise lines profits, then I would be more likely to agree with you.
Until then, cynic that I am, the jury is still out as to what I will do.
I cannot believe that anybody, and especially a Terrier, really believes that P&O pocket the tips.
Last edited by Manoverboard on 06 Apr 2018, 11:24, edited 1 time in total.
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screwy
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#24

Post by screwy »

Well we will pay the £7 pd but that will be between the 2 of us. we will also tip the cabin stewarsd and selected staff as we see fit. Time to include tips in the cruise price...and i dont care what any bugger thinks. The only tips i got when working was..dont walk on an open landing, youll get a p*ss pot tipped on you.!!
Mel

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Stephen
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#25

Post by Stephen »

screwy wrote: 06 Apr 2018, 12:30
Well we will pay the £7 pd but that will be between the 2 of us. we will also tip the cabin stewarsd and selected staff as we see fit. Time to include tips in the cruise price...and i dont care what any bug*er thinks. The only tips i got when working was..dont walk on an open landing, youll get a p*ss pot tipped on you.!!
:lol:

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