Current Affairs

[towny44]

Cummings seems to have an agenda, but I'm not sure what it is other than a desire to damage Boris for sacking him.
Whilst Cummings was his senior advisor I guess Boris would have used him as a sounding board when considering what policies to pursue, so it's no surprise that some of these things would have been discussed, and many discarded immediately as being too extreme. On the whole I can find little fault in the path the govt followed through this pandemic, there are questions about the timing of some actions, and definitely some poor decisions were made about care home residents discharge from hospital, and whether PPE could have been handled better.
But most of these areas benefit greatly from hindsight, and I wonder just how well the critics who use this would have fared in the same situation.

[Onelife]

,........or believing every word that comes out of Dominic Cummings mouth?

He made some pretty lurid claims to the parliamentary committee and was told to produce evidence. Which he hasn't. So do I believe him? No. Of course some who previously said he was a devious liar are now lapping up every word. Just saying......

A man scorned and all that…. but I’m sure there are elements of truth in what he is saying.

[Kendhni]

A man scorned and all that…. but I’m sure there are elements of truth in what he is saying.

I am sure a lot of what he says is the truth (or at least his perception of the truth) ... but as David says it is all about context.
The crassly incompetent handling of the start of this pandemic by the government needs to be dealt with - Johnson and his fanbois can only cower behind the word 'hindsight' for so long before the reality hits them.

[Gill W]

There are defamation laws in this country, so i feel a media outlet like the BBC would be rigorous in making sure what they are publishing has a basis in fact, for example reading the original Whats App message .

Also, if these claims were not true, it would be a simple matter for No 10 to issue a statement to say so. But they don’t - probably because multiple people were in the Whats App group or heard Johnson say it.

Cummings is no doubt an untrustworthy, slippery eel with an agenda. However, that doesn’t mean that what he is saying is not true.

It seems the consensus of opinion is answer A. It’s worse that Cummings has revealed this information.

It baffles me that people can be so slavishly devoted to Johnson, even when Johnson apparently believes old people dying of Covid isn’t a big deal

How bad does it have to get before the fan club admits in public ‘this doesn’t seem right’

[Mervyn and Trish]

Ah yes. I recall all the previous posts in which you told us what a decent honest man Cummings is. My apologies for mis-remembering otherwise.

[Gill W]

That post doesn’t make any sense.

I’ve always regarded him as a slippery snake and confirmed that in today’s post

[screwy]

I knew this bitch-slap between Johnson and Cummings, two of the most mendacious excuses for human beings, would be hilarious - it is certainly starting to warm up. I really hope it does not affect Carrie's ability to run the country.

Well I’d rather have Carrie running the country than TM.

[Chalgrave4]

Speaking as somebody who is all too rapidly approaching the 80 yr mark I can see some sense in what Johnson is alleged to have said. If further lockdowns are going to severely damage a large number of peoples mental health (as severe financial problems often do) then perhaps a difficult balance needs to be acknowledged and struck.
I would also question how many of the "Covid" deaths in older people with severe underlying health issues are merely bringing the inevitable forward a few weeks or months - How many died with Covid or because of it.
I acknowledge the painful impact of the death of a loved one but sometimes a "Big Picture" view is needed

[Mervyn and Trish]

That post doesn’t make any sense.

I’ve always regarded him as a slippery snake and confirmed that in today’s post

And yet you now believe every word because it suits your bash Boris agenda.

And for the record I worked for the BBC for 20 years and fully understand the defamation laws. And I can assure you there are plenty of defences other than proving what was said was true. And the BBC have some of the sharpest lawyers around. They will have no worries about publishing wild claims made by a person like Cummings because they will know how much credence the man in the street puts on them, a vital test in libel cases.

[Kendhni]

@chalgrave4, I can see where you are coming from but it will take more than that to convince me that just because someone reaches 80 makes them disposable in any society that wants to call itself 'civilised'.

[barney]

I don’t know if it’s true but I heard today that the average age of death due to covid is actually higher than the average death age, if that makes sense.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Yes I understand what you are saying. The current fall in death rates below the 5 year average also suggests as has been said before that many of the deaths were premature by a few months rather than completely unexpected. Tragic nonetheless.

[towny44]

@chalgrave4, I can see where you are coming from but it will take more than that to convince me that just because someone reaches 80 makes them disposable in any society that wants to call itself 'civilised'.

It's not as simple as you try to make it seem, at the start of the pandemic there were so many unknowns, the number of deaths, the level of hospitalisation, the stock of PPE, the pressures that covid would put on the NHS, and many more. Where to allocate scarce resources must have been a nightmare for all NHS managers, so it's no wonder that these sort of impossible options were being discussed, in fact if they hadn't I would be more concerned.

[Kendhni]

Interesting article: https://www.health.org.uk/publications/ ... oved-wrong

A potential 1.5 million years of life lost due to COVID!!

[Quizzical Bob]

Interesting article: https://www.health.org.uk/publications/ ... oved-wrong

A potential 1.5 million years of life lost due to COVID!!

Interesting historically but parts of it are out of date due to widespread vaccination.

I would contend that much more living has been lost due to lockdown.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I think the comparison to flu is totally bogus. Lives are lost to flu every year despite the most vulnerable being vaccinated before the season begins and with well established treatments. At the start of Covid no-one was vaccinated and treatments untried. Conversely we locked down for Covid, we don't for flu.

Another figure I struggle with is the idea buried in the detail that the over 75s lost an average of 20 years of life. Is the average life expectancy 95 these days?

Covid was grim. No doubt. But I'm not sure this article contributes a lot.

[Frank Manning]

@chalgrave4, I can see where you are coming from but it will take more than that to convince me that just because someone reaches 80 makes them disposable in any society that wants to call itself 'civilised'.

having just reached 80, I will obviously agree with you. My 80 is a comparatively young 80, so I think I have a few years left, and I dont want to be sacrificed on anyone's hypothetical altar. Of course the deaths due to spread within care homes is a factor in the premature deaths among the elderly. Like norovirus on a ship, close proximity within a care home is conducive to rapid spread of viruses. As Dr Mark Porter mentioned in The Times today.

[oldbluefox]

@chalgrave4, I can see where you are coming from but it will take more than that to convince me that just because someone reaches 80 makes them disposable in any society that wants to call itself 'civilised'.

Did you not advocate that the vaccination should have been given first to those who were working as opposed to the older generation who were more susceptible to the virus?

[Kendhni]

Interesting article: https://www.health.org.uk/publications/ ... oved-wrong

A potential 1.5 million years of life lost due to COVID!!

Interesting historically but parts of it are out of date due to widespread vaccination.

I would contend that much more living has been lost due to lockdown.

True, the article is very clear about its methodology and time period that was covered - butt hat still does not change the accumulation of years lost ... widespread vaccination does not reduce the figure at all, it might just increase more slowly (hopefully).

I suppose that would depend on what priority to give to your definition of 'living'. I have missed holidays and eating out (although we found some great new carry outs and restaurants delivering food). On the other hand I have cherished all the extra time I have had to spend with close family, friends and neighbours (the last two obviously being within the guidelines provided). For others maybe the inability to imbibe copious amounts of their preferred liquid personality is what they miss

[Kendhni]

@chalgrave4, I can see where you are coming from but it will take more than that to convince me that just because someone reaches 80 makes them disposable in any society that wants to call itself 'civilised'.

Did you not advocate that the vaccination should have been given first to those who were working as opposed to the older generation who were more susceptible to the virus?

Yes I did ... but not for the reasons you are trying to imply.

[Kendhni]

Another figure I struggle with is the idea buried in the detail that the over 75s lost an average of 20 years of life. Is the average life expectancy 95 these days?

They explained their methodology in the article. Your expected lifespan was taken based on your date of birth, so someone who is 75 today may have only been expected to live another 10 years, whereas someone who is 20 today may be expected to live to the age of 100 (thereby losing 80 years of life). They also explained that the source of the numbers was from ONS and (obviously) could not be considered precise.

Someone did some number crunching and came up with a number, if you have anything better I would be interested in reading it.

[towny44]

@chalgrave4, I can see where you are coming from but it will take more than that to convince me that just because someone reaches 80 makes them disposable in any society that wants to call itself 'civilised'.

Did you not advocate that the vaccination should have been given first to those who were working as opposed to the older generation who were more susceptible to the virus?

Yes I did ... but not for the reasons you are trying to imply.

The outcome would still have led to even higher elderly deaths than Boris's performance produced.

[Kendhni]

Did you not advocate that the vaccination should have been given first to those who were working as opposed to the older generation who were more susceptible to the virus?

Yes I did ... but not for the reasons you are trying to imply.

The outcome would still have led to even higher elderly deaths than Boris's performance produced.

Can you back that random statement up with any evidence other than conjecture?

[oldbluefox]

Are you trying to say that no more older people would have died had they not been vaccinated. It is the vaccine in the more vulnerable groups which has staved off the deaths. Of course more would have died if your idea had been used.
I can imagine the outcry now if Boris had followed that line of thought but whatever he did would have suited some and not others.

[Kendhni]

Are you trying to say that no more older people would have died had they not been vaccinated.

Nope, I made no such statement. In fact some have died even with the vaccination.