Current Affairs

[Manoverboard]

I thought he came from Pakistan ... somebody will be able to put me right though.

[Gill W]

I think we are at that point again.

That point where half the country are calling for mitigations to curb the spiralling Covid infections.

Then the government says they aren't going to do anything extra, but backtrack a couple of weeks later, because everything is heading out of control.

Then a few months later when it's time to analyse the damage, the other half of the country says 'well, we can all see things in hindsight'.

It's the third time we've been here, have no lessons been learned yet

[Manoverboard]

The me-me-me population as a whole didn't bother to heed the warnings nor see the signs, what else could we expect ?

[screwy]

Lessons not learned by the public.

[Gill W]

The me-me-me population as a whole didn't bother to heed the warnings nor see the signs, what else could we expect ?

The messaging from both government and media has been that it's all over.

[oldbluefox]

The messaging from both government and media has been that it's all over.

What? Not from what I've seen and heard. Joe Public thinks it's all over.

[Gill W]

Lessons not learned by the public.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58876089

Bearing in mind the government's initial response to the pandemic has been branded the 'worst public health failure ever' by the MP's on the Health
and Social Care Committee, lets hope the government have learned their lessons, eh.

[Gill W]

The messaging from both government and media has been that it's all over.

What? Not from what I've seen and heard. Joe Public thinks it's all over.

Where did Joe Public get the idea from that it was over, if not from the government and the media?

[towny44]

Lessons not learned by the public.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58876089

Bearing in mind the government's initial response to the pandemic has been branded the 'worst public health failure ever' by the MP's on the Health
and Social Care Committee, lets hope the government have learned their lessons, eh.

Hopefully the vaccinations will continue to limit hospitalisation and deaths well below last autumns levels, especially as the vax rate of 11-17yr olds ramps up, and maybe even starts on over 5s. Certainly in our region the majority of positive results are in school age children or the unvaccinated, a statistic that gives me hope that we will avoid last year's problems.

[barney]

Five o’clock and Beth Rigby is telling us exactly what the Health Sec is going to say in his statement.
What’s the point if it’s already leaked?

[Onelife]

The messaging from both government and media has been that it's all over.

What? Not from what I've seen and heard. Joe Public thinks it's all over.

Where did Joe Public get the idea from that it was over, if not from the government and the media?

Mixed messages often lead to confusion followed by apathy!

[Kendhni]

That's very true and this government has been particularly fond of issuing mixed messages.
Maybe they reckon if they throw out every idea then at least they can claim one was right.

[Kendhni]

Then a few months later when it's time to analyse the damage, the other half of the country says 'well, we can all see things in hindsight'.

There has been far too much cowering behind the word 'hindsight' lately, one of the most misused/abused terms of modern politics.

[Mervyn and Trish]

The messaging from both government and media has been that it's all over.

What? Not from what I've seen and heard. Joe Public thinks it's all over.

Where did Joe Public get the idea from that it was over, if not from the government and the media?

Facebook and Twitter. And from the travel and leisure industry that want it to be. The messaging I've heard from the government via the media has been crystal clear that it isn't.

We also have the opportunity to take responsibility for ourselves. An early part of the government Plan B, which they're not implementing yet, is to reintroduce enforcement of mask wearing. But they've not said we can't wear them. I presume the masses who've decided not to wear them will be first in the queue to blame the government in two weeks time.

I'm sufficiently cautious to take my own precautions. I still wear my mask in places such as shops. I still avoid places I judge as overcrowded. I don't need anybody to tell me to do that. And I don't hear anybody telling me not to.

[Quizzical Bob]

I think we are at that point again.

That point where half the country are calling for mitigations to curb the spiralling Covid infections.

Then the government says they aren't going to do anything extra, but backtrack a couple of weeks later, because everything is heading out of control.

Then a few months later when it's time to analyse the damage, the other half of the country says 'well, we can all see things in hindsight'.

It's the third time we've been here, have no lessons been learned yet

What measures would you suggest? The only point of lockdowns is to buy time but they come at enormous expense. We have the vaccines so we have to make the most of them. Around our way most of the infections seem to be of school age. Once it has burned through them the situation should improve. There is no appetite for any further restrictions.

[oldbluefox]

Absolutely Mervyn. The government relaxed lockdown and the need for wearing masks in public places. However nowhere have I seen where the government or the media have said it is all over. On the contrary I seem to remember they urged caution. Maybe Gill can provide sources to support her comment.
Personally it has made little difference to us. We still hand sanitise, still wear masks indoors and maintain social distancing. If a venue looks crowded we don't go in. We don't need the government to tell us what to do, we take that responsibility for ourselves. Do we really need the government to lead us by the hand?
For those who need to be told what to do I believe we should follow what they do in Scotland and in Wales and the sooner the better.

[Onelife]

I think we are at that point again.

That point where half the country are calling for mitigations to curb the spiralling Covid infections.

Then the government says they aren't going to do anything extra, but backtrack a couple of weeks later, because everything is heading out of control.

Then a few months later when it's time to analyse the damage, the other half of the country says 'well, we can all see things in hindsight'.

It's the third time we've been here, have no lessons been learned yet

What measures would you suggest? The only point of lockdowns is to buy time but they come at enormous expense. We have the vaccines so we have to make the most of them. Around our way most of the infections seem to be of school age. Once it has burned through them the situation should improve. There is no appetite for any further restrictions.

What they could have done is make the wearing of face masks mandatory in enclosed spaces, such as shops and work places because as Javid said today…” the wearing of face masks makes a big difference”

Another missed opportunity which would have left no one in any doubt as to what is required.

[oldbluefox]

"If the government don't make me do it then I won't do it then when everything goes belly up I'll blame the government. It won't be my fault".

[towny44]

"If the government don't make me do it then I won't do it then when everything goes belly up I'll blame the government. It won't be my fault".

Where the heck is our like button when we need it!

[Onelife]

"If the government don't make me do it then I won't do it then when everything goes belly up I'll blame the government. It won't be my fault".

Unfortunately, with face masks my doing it protects you. I need you to do it as well to protect me.

[oldbluefox]

Unfortunately, with face masks my doing it protects you. I need you to do it as well to protect me.

Correct. My wearing a face mask offers me some protection but more to the point it offers some protection to others and also gives out a message that the pandemic is not over no matter what anyone else thinks and maybe it would be an idea if others followed suit.
Likely it falls on deaf ears because unless dictated to some people will not do it for themselves.

[Gill W]

What measures would you suggest? The only point of lockdowns is to buy time but they come at enormous expense. We have the vaccines so we have to make the most of them. Around our way most of the infections seem to be of school age. Once it has burned through them the situation should improve. There is no appetite for any further restrictions.

Who mentioned lockdowns? The things most people are thinking of are the things that should never have been stopped in the first place, like mandatory mask wearing and distancing. Plus other initiatives such as vaccine passports and ventilation improvements particularly in schools. I have mentioned all this before, so it’s not hindsight to suggest that, it we had taken this route, we may have maintained our strong position from earlier in the year. But, we seem to have squandered all our advantages for the second time.

I have also said before that the time to implement measures is before it looks like they are needed. But the stable door is open and it looks like the horse has bolted. It’s going to be a long, hard winter, If a section of society hasn’t got the appetite for mitigations then it’s going to be even harder.

[Gill W]

Facebook and Twitter. And from the travel and leisure industry that want it to be. The messaging I've heard from the government via the media has been crystal clear that it isn't.

We also have the opportunity to take responsibility for ourselves. An early part of the government Plan B, which they're not implementing yet, is to reintroduce enforcement of mask wearing. But they've not said we can't wear them. I presume the masses who've decided not to wear them will be first in the queue to blame the government in two weeks time.

I'm sufficiently cautious to take my own precautions. I still wear my mask in places such as shops. I still avoid places I judge as overcrowded. I don't need anybody to tell me to do that. And I don't hear anybody telling me not to.

I think Facebook and Twitter are classed as media. As people have a bias as to what they see on their social media feeds, I think it’s very true that they will see things to confirm their already held belief that the pandemic is over. I don’t do Facebook, but my Twitter feed is full of posts saying that the pandemic is far from over.

I think the travel industry targets their ads at people with the preconceived idea that the pandemic is over.

So the social media and travel industry pander to people who already think the pandemic is over. These people must have got that idea from some where - maybe it was when Johnson was trumpeting his freedom day, and the irreversible removal of mitigations

Absolutely Mervyn. The government relaxed lockdown and the need for wearing masks in public places. However nowhere have I seen where the government or the media have said it is all over. On the contrary I seem to remember they urged caution. Maybe Gill can provide sources to support her comment.
Personally it has made little difference to us. We still hand sanitise, still wear masks indoors and maintain social distancing. If a venue looks crowded we don't go in. We don't need the government to tell us what to do, we take that responsibility for ourselves. Do we really need the government to lead us by the hand?
For those who need to be told what to do I believe we should follow what they do in Scotland and in Wales and the sooner the better.

As I said to Mervyn - Johnson’s bullish comments about freedom day and the irreversible nature of the removal of mitigations sewed the seeds in people’s minds that it was over - or at least the ones that wanted to believe it was over.

Your final paragraph suggests that you agree with the mandatory nature of some mitigations, like in Scotland and Wales. I agree that England should bring back these mandatory measures ASAP. Some people do look to the government for leadership. They believed it when the government messaging said it was over, now the government needs to make them believe it’s not over. This is still a public health crisis, and the government is responsible for governance

"If the government don't make me do it then I won't do it then when everything goes belly up I'll blame the government. It won't be my fault".

What about if you haven’t stopped wearing masks and avoiding crowded places and are despairing that more and more people aren’t wearing their masks and want the government to take public health measures to protect us all.

In that scenario, if the government dithers and it goes belly up, I think it would be in order to flag up the government’s shortcomings

Correct. My wearing a face mask offers me some protection but more to the point it offers some protection to others and also gives out a message that the pandemic is not over no matter what anyone else thinks and maybe it would be an idea if others followed suit.
Likely it falls on deaf ears because unless dictated to some people will not do it for themselves.

You know what be a powerful message about wearing a face mask and the pandemic not being over? Tory MPs wearing a mask in parliament. Masks are conspicuous by their absence on that side of the house

[towny44]

What measures would you suggest? The only point of lockdowns is to buy time but they come at enormous expense. We have the vaccines so we have to make the most of them. Around our way most of the infections seem to be of school age. Once it has burned through them the situation should improve. There is no appetite for any further restrictions.

Who mentioned lockdowns? The things most people are thinking of are the things that should never have been stopped in the first place, like mandatory mask wearing and distancing. Plus other initiatives such as vaccine passports and ventilation improvements particularly in schools. I have mentioned all this before, so it’s not hindsight to suggest that, it we had taken this route, we may have maintained our strong position from earlier in the year. But, we seem to have squandered all our advantages for the second time.

I have also said before that the time to implement measures is before it looks like they are needed. But the stable door is open and it looks like the horse has bolted. It’s going to be a long, hard winter, If a section of society hasn’t got the appetite for mitigations then it’s going to be even harder.

Gill, I dont think anyone in govt ever suggested stopping wearing face masks, they left it very much to individuals and organisations. So all NHS hospitals still require masks, and social distancing, TFL still require face masks, as do many other local bus companies and train companies, and many shops.. But they did leave it to Joe Public to decide for themselves in many areas, with the assumption that those who might be concerned about any busy places where mask wearing and social distancing was not well observed, that they should avoid these areas, if they did not feel safe, which I am assuming you try to follow, as do many others on here.
I wont stress that we need to learn how to live with, and survive Covid, but that is definitely my own view.

[oldbluefox]

The government have never said the pandemic is over.