Brexit

[Ray Scully]

Everything that has happened since the referendum is a result of the remainers not accepting the democratic vote of the people.

Nothing at all to do with Jacob Rees-Moog, Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, David Davis, Nigel Farage.... who are already subtley putting distance between themselves and the final outcome

The democratic vote of the people is not deliverable. They were lied to. There is no 'Brexit dividend'.

[Onelife]

..and Jack replied..
What is for sure you would have struggled to get all the remain camp lies on the side of their bus....

300 million Job loses Ok, 300m might be a tad exaggerated, but they are happening, check your local press. Not the MSM
Businesses leaving for foreign lands They are
Brexit recession Won't be long now
World war 3 (white head stones) That was Boris Johnson
Tax increases Happening now
Etc...

David Cameron has raised the spectre of war in support of the case for the UK remaining in Europe, insisting that continued membership could help avoid future conflicts.

The prime minister drew on examples from history in his argument, talking of the consequences of conflict, with emotional images that included reference to the rows of white crosses on Commonwealth war graves.


David Cameron rejects charge of crying wolf over Brexit war risk
Read more
The speech, parts of which were released in advance, prompted a backlash from the leave campaign that his argument amounted to hyperbole and scaremongering

[Jack Staff]

David Cameron has raised the spectre of war...

Who?

[towny44]

How did my party manage to get us to this situation in the Brexit negotiations?
I did wonder after Cameron resigned and May took over, whether it might not be a good idea if the Brexit dept of Govt ought to be a cross party group, just to ensure that the majority of Parliament would own whatever deal was agreed. I think it was May's acceptance speech in Downing street after her return from the palace that made me discard that idea, I was bowled along by her dream of a country fit for everyone, silly me. It now seems that maybe my initial thoughts were right all along, which would now have meant that however bad the deal agreed was, it would be accepted by a majority of MPs, Scot Nats excepted, and Theresa's ill judged decision to hold another GE in 2017 would not have been necessary, and the DUP would be unable to scupper the deal, and even Jacob and Sons and the ERG would have ended up toothless.
Oh woe is me!

[Draining swamps (the EU bureaucracy) and crocodiles (that's you Jack ) springs to mind.]

[Onelife]

How did my party manage to get us to this situation in the Brexit negotiations?
I did wonder after Cameron resigned and May took over, whether it might not be a good idea if the Brexit dept of Govt ought to be a cross party group, just to ensure that the majority of Parliament would own whatever deal was agreed. I think it was May's acceptance speech in Downing street after her return from the palace that made me discard that idea, I was bowled along by her dream of a country fit for everyone, silly me. It now seems that maybe my initial thoughts were right all along, which would now have meant that however bad the deal agreed was, it would be accepted by a majority of MPs, Scot Nats excepted, and Theresa's ill judged decision to hold another GE in 2017 would not have been necessary, and the DUP would be unable to scupper the deal, and even Jacob and Sons and the ERG would have ended up toothless.
Oh woe is me!

[Draining swamps (the EU bureaucracy) and crocodiles (that's you Jack ) springs to mind.]

Perhaps a cross party group would have been the sensible approach but it would more than likely have ended up in fisty cuffs. Theresa was badly advised and now is paying the price for that misjudgment.

Parts of the country were crying out for change and whatever happens next will be the price we have to pay for not listening to them.

[Onelife]

"British business has issued a stark warning to MPs that they risk plunging an ill-prepared economy into chaos unless they stop playing politics at Westminster and back the prime minister’s Brexit deal."

Guardian

This should concentrate MP's minds a little

[screwy]

Doubt it,their all self indulgent rogues and liars.

[anniec]

Doubt it,their all self indulgent rogues and liars.

Add to that ill-mannered oafs. Did anyone else spot Jeremy Corbyn mouth "stupid woman" at TM during PMQs today?

[Onelife]

Doubt it,their all self indulgent rogues and liars.

Add to that ill-mannered oafs. Did anyone else spot Jeremy Corbyn mouth "stupid woman" at TM during PMQs today?

Hi annice,

l was watching PMQ and as you say it certainly looks as if he mouthed the word "Stupid Women". If it proves to be the case then l think it demonstrates quite clearly how he views women place in society.

How dare he say that about my Theresa

[anniec]

Doubt it,their all self indulgent rogues and liars.

Add to that ill-mannered oafs. Did anyone else spot Jeremy Corbyn mouth "stupid woman" at TM during PMQs today?

Hi annice,

l was watching PMQ and as you say it certainly looks as if he mouthed the word "Stupid Women". If it proves to be the case then l think it demonstrates quite clearly how he views women place in society.

How dare he say that about my Theresa

He's now denying he said it, so add untruthful to the crime list. My OH and I were watching it together and both commented simultaneously at the time on what he said. Amusingly, the Speaker said exactly the same about Andrea Leadsom fairly recently, so should be interesting watching him adjudicating...

[Jack Staff]

Woman, people?

Well at least it stops them talking about anything that might just be important to the country before they break for Xmas.

This government will do anything to push through this disaster, but worse than that, the opposition is so weak they can be hamstrung by a mouthed comment. Come on Jeremy grow a pair. Nobody dared do anything to Philip Hammond when he said exactly the same last July. But Jeremy just runs away. Pathetic. Apologise and show up Hammond (fat chance).

[Onelife]

In a statement, the CBI said its senior policy-making committee – which canvasses the views of 900 business leaders across Britain – had been unanimous in supporting the withdrawal agreement.

“We are united in the view that the government’s proposed deal represents hard-won progress. It requires all sides – including business – to compromise, but compromising is essential to avoid a damaging no-deal and move on to the future. For the sake of the prosperity of our country, we must not go backwards.”

Source...Guardian


But Jack knows better.......l'm starting to think you are in the Sh*t stirring buissnes Jack

[Jack Staff]

But Jack knows better.......l'm starting to think you are in the Sh*t stirring buissnes Jack

Bit harsh. Just because I have a different view? I see you use the Theresa May method of bringing the country together.

As the CC poster boy of May's deal, can you explain how this 'deal' works please?
Any deal involves trade, I am having to trade amongst other things, my freedom of movement, employment rights, laws on safe food, clean beaches, roaming charges, airline compensation, availability of cancer treatment and medicines, what exactly am I getting in return?

This deal will not please Barney (I assume) either, so it can't be what "we" voted for.

[Stephen]

Brexit Christmas special £5.99

f7414f37e26f63373c4fc0254dd02bee--gifts-uk-joke-gifts.jpg

[Jack Staff]

Brexit Christmas special £5.99

Ah, another one who just wants to ignore reality?
Sorry if that upsets your Brexity fantasy.

[Jack Staff]

Reports of plans for former servicemen to be called up after no-deal Brexit.
Fellow vets saying "Not if it's to support leaving the EU."
So, a Leave army and a Remain army?
We wonder what kind of war that would be called.
Not a very "civil" way to solve Tory party's problems. eh?

{Veterans for Europe}

[Stephen]

Brexit Christmas special £5.99

Ah, another one who just wants to ignore reality?
Sorry if that upsets your Brexity fantasy.

You are too sensitive Jack. I was just having a laugh

[towny44]

But Jack knows better.......l'm starting to think you are in the Sh*t stirring buissnes Jack

Bit harsh. Just because I have a different view? I see you use the Theresa May method of bringing the country together.

As the CC poster boy of May's deal, can you explain how this 'deal' works please?
Any deal involves trade, I am having to trade amongst other things, my freedom of movement, employment rights, laws on safe food, clean beaches, roaming charges, airline compensation, availability of cancer treatment and medicines, what exactly am I getting in return?

This deal will not please Barney (I assume) either, so it can't be what "we" voted for.

Whilst freedom of movement in the EU will, on the basis of your repeated posts,, be a major drawback; on the basis of frequent comments from the govt. about workers rights, environmental issues and even non chlorine washed chickens, are unlikely to produce major differences to the current legislation. All of the others have been stated as areas that we would seek to agree favorable outcomes in the final phase of negotiation.
But I accept that nothing is certain until its agreed, but I see no reason to feel that the EU would seek to deny cancer patients treatments they presently receive, and most mobile providers have already agreed to maintain current roaming costs, and I imagine that even airline compensation will end up being kept in line.
You really should stop relying on project fear scare stories.

[Jack Staff]

Whilst freedom of movement in the EU will, on the basis of your repeated posts,, be a major drawback; on the basis of frequent comments from the govt. about workers rights, environmental issues and even non chlorine washed chickens, are unlikely to produce major differences to the current legislation. All of the others have been stated as areas that we would seek to agree favorable outcomes in the final phase of negotiation.
But I accept that nothing is certain until its agreed, but I see no reason to feel that the EU would seek to deny cancer patients treatments they presently receive, and most mobile providers have already agreed to maintain current roaming costs, and I imagine that even airline compensation will end up being kept in line.
You really should stop relying on project fear scare stories.

So the government was lying when it said about the "bonfire of regulations" then?
It is not the EU "seeking to deny cancer patients treatments", it is the British government freely leaving an international body that allows it to happen.

But you didn't answer my question of what do I get in return.

[Onelife]

Hi Jack

Re: post 3538

I apologise if my reference to your sh*t stirring offends Jack, but l have read nothing in your posts that divert from your second referendum obsession .....l'll say this once.....If there were ever to be a second referendum it would destroy people's faith in democracy....It would certainly destroy mine.

Being one of a few on this forum who support Theresa May's plan then l'm happy to accept your cc nomination.

Ah! The deal......It works like any other deal, it has to be negotiated in stages....After two years of negotiations (in what could be described particularly difficult circumstances) we have on the table 500+ pages that give us the opportunity start the process of breaking free from Brussels.

The second stage of negotiations will deal with trade which can't (officially) start until the withdrawal plan is signed off...If this happens then nothing will change during the transition period. The things you have qouted will only come into play if we leave with no deal.

There will be difficult trade talks ahead of us but not insurmountable one's, trade is a two way thing and it will be in the interest of all parties to reach amicable trade deals. I can't give you a definitive answer to your questions but l presume we will fight our corner with thebull dog spirit she has shown up till now.

By all means keep up your hopes of there being a referendum but l would be interested to hear what your b plan is should that option not come to the table.

Keith

[Jack Staff]

Keith,
I do not have a 'second' referendum obsession. Mainly because the 2016 one was so flawed.
Even if it wasn't, referendums are a bad addition to our parliamentary democracy and should be banned once we have cleared up this Brexit mess.
You are seriously trying to tell me that stopping people voting would restore people's faith in democracy? Come on, seriously?

You seem to be telling me it will be jam tomorrow, maybe.
Not the jam I have now, the one I like, but a new flavour, but maybe without the sugar, or maybe the fruit or both.
There is nothing wrong with jam we have now. Perhaps just a little less sugar and a bit more fruit would be nice. we can talk to our friends and get that sorted. That's the jam I want.

Plan B is simple. Rejoin.
Luckily if this government is successful (very unlikely on resent performance), the clamour to rejoin will be unstoppable.
There is even the possibility of England rejoining and having to accept the €, while Scotland still has the £, due to the 'waiting room' after independence (yes, I know the € is 'only' an obligation, Sweden/Poland. Just a bit of gallows humour).

[Jack Staff]

Sorry Keith, jumped the gun a bit on plan B.
Before rejoin we have the simple option of Theresa (or her replacement) writing another letter. That is all that is required by the EU, until March 29th (or extended date).

[Onelife]

Keith,
I do not have a 'second' referendum obsession. Mainly because the 2016 one was so flawed.
Even if it wasn't, referendums are a bad addition to our parliamentary democracy and should be banned once we have cleared up this Brexit mess.
You are seriously trying to tell me that stopping people voting would restore people's faith in democracy? Come on, seriously?

You seem to be telling me it will be jam tomorrow, maybe.
Not the jam I have now, the one I like, but a new flavour, but maybe without the sugar, or maybe the fruit or both.
There is nothing wrong with jam we have now. Perhaps just a little less sugar and a bit more fruit would be nice. we can talk to our friends and get that sorted. That's the jam I want.

Plan B is simple. Rejoin.
Luckily if this government is successful (very unlikely on resent performance), the clamour to rejoin will be unstoppable.
There is even the possibility of England rejoining and having to accept the €, while Scotland still has the £, due to the 'waiting room' after independence (yes, I know the € is 'only' an obligation, Sweden/Poland. Just a bit of gallows humour).

Jack......l'm inclined to agree with you about referendums not being a good idea.......l would much prefer a tcouncil of people's representatives making such decisions.

If you change the way in which democracy is supposed to work e.g voting till you get the resut you want then no l don't think there is much hope for democracy.


Jack, l'm hoping it will be jam with cream on top.......but l am prepared to wait for the cream if it means we can take our future into our own hands again.

l think it very unlikely that we will be knocking on the EU door again and even more unlikely us ever wanting to join a currency that many who joined wish that hadn't.

Plan c...?

Keith

[Jack Staff]

Jack......l'm inclined to agree with you about referendums not being a good idea.......l would much prefer a tcouncil of people's representatives making such decisions.

That is certainly an idea that is gaining ground at the moment. I am not sure 'random' people would be as random as you or I would want?! Maybe there is a way.

If you change the way in which democracy is supposed to work e.g voting till you get the resut you want then no l don't think there is much hope for democracy.

We are in a specific mess, a cul-de-sac. Often the only way out is to reverse and go back via a referendum again. Then ban them.

Jack, l'm hoping it will be jam with cream on top.......but l am prepared to wait for the cream if it means we can take our future into our own hands again.

But this deal gives all power to Brussels. 'Vassal state' as JRM says.

l think it very unlikely that we will be knocking on the EU door again and even more unlikely us ever wanting to join a currency that many who joined wish that hadn't.

We do not have to knock. We are still on the inside. Another good reason not to leave then.

[oldbluefox]

Looks like there is movement already in the EU's stance in the event of a no deal........

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-6851_en.htm