Brexit

[anniec]

I'm furious with the anti democrats who have attempted to overturn the vote result from day one. That is an undeniable fact that they cannot deny.

You mean the referendum result that was illegally influenced, and, if it had been an binding referendum the result would have been declared unsafe due to the illegal actions of the Leave campaigns?

It's undemocratic to be still clinging to the result of such a referendum

Gill, would you still want a second referendum if there was a strong chance 'leave' would win again?

Most of my friends and family voted 'remain'. With the exception of one, they have now changed their minds and would vote 'leave' in a second referendum. Very unscientific and, perhaps, unrepresentative of the country as a whole - who knows? What I do know is that there is no right and wrong over this; only different opinions and, from your perspective, the wrong side won the vote that we were told was a once in a generation event. My 'real world' is clearly a little different to yours.

Cameron pumped £9,000,000 of our money into leafleting every household in the country, and still failed to win.

[barney]

I'm furious with the anti democrats who have attempted to overturn the vote result from day one. That is an undeniable fact that they cannot deny.

You mean the referendum result that was illegally influenced, and, if it had been an binding referendum the result would have been declared unsafe due to the illegal actions of the Leave campaigns?

It's undemocratic to be still clinging to the result of such a referendum

That's a Jack Staff quote if ever I heard one. We're you separated at birth?

[johnds]

I'm furious with the anti democrats who have attempted to overturn the vote result from day one. That is an undeniable fact that they cannot deny.

You mean the referendum result that was illegally influenced, and, if it had been an binding referendum the result would have been declared unsafe due to the illegal actions of the Leave campaigns?

It's undemocratic to be still clinging to the result of such a referendum

Sorry Gill
Trying to be relatively polite
That's definitely clinging at straws

[towny44]

I'm furious with the anti democrats who have attempted to overturn the vote result from day one. That is an undeniable fact that they cannot deny.

You mean the referendum result that was illegally influenced, and, if it had been an binding referendum the result would have been declared unsafe due to the illegal actions of the Leave campaigns?

It's undemocratic to be still clinging to the result of such a referendum

I suspect that it is the algorithms finding topics of interest to you on social media sites that is the problem, on facebook mine only seems to find like minded leave postings, both of which result in only seeing posts that match your own point view.
As a result of only seeing our own thoughts reflected on the major social media sites one tends to assume everyone agrees with your point of view. Maybe this forum provides a better perspective than Twitter or Facebook?

[Manoverboard]

I'm furious with the anti democrats who have attempted to overturn the vote result from day one. That is an undeniable fact that they cannot deny.

You mean the referendum result that was illegally influenced, and, if it had been an binding referendum the result would have been declared unsafe due to the illegal actions of the Leave campaigns?

It's undemocratic to be still clinging to the result of such a referendum

Sorry Gill
Trying to be relatively polite
That's definitely clinging at straws

My posting said " Hanging on by a thread " but Gill didn't, she claimed, understand it … yours will clarify.

[Gill W]

I'm furious with the anti democrats who have attempted to overturn the vote result from day one. That is an undeniable fact that they cannot deny.

You mean the referendum result that was illegally influenced, and, if it had been an binding referendum the result would have been declared unsafe due to the illegal actions of the Leave campaigns?

It's undemocratic to be still clinging to the result of such a referendum

Gill, would you still want a second referendum if there was a strong chance 'leave' would win again?

Most of my friends and family voted 'remain'. With the exception of one, they have now changed their minds and would vote 'leave' in a second referendum. Very unscientific and, perhaps, unrepresentative of the country as a whole - who knows? What I do know is that there is no right and wrong over this; only different opinions and, from your perspective, the wrong side won the vote that we were told was a once in a generation event. My 'real world' is clearly a little different to yours.

Cameron pumped £9,000,000 of our money into leafleting every household in the country, and still failed to win.

What I've seen suggests that 'Remain' would win - however, I personally feel that the time for any second referendum has passed, it's way too late for that.

I think we should have moved beyond 'winning' and 'losing' and deal with what's happening. As it stands at the moment, in 4 and a half weeks time we leave the EU, and all our treaties, memeberships and agreements come to abrupt end, and, due to the current state of affairs the country is not ready for such a major event to happen. That's where the focus should be now.

[Manoverboard]

Maybe this forum provides a better perspective than Twitter or Facebook?

I also think that it does and it is perhaps interesting that we ( leavers ) each live in parts of the Country that are nowhere near each other, for the most part anyway.

[Gill W]

I'm furious with the anti democrats who have attempted to overturn the vote result from day one. That is an undeniable fact that they cannot deny.

You mean the referendum result that was illegally influenced, and, if it had been an binding referendum the result would have been declared unsafe due to the illegal actions of the Leave campaigns?

It's undemocratic to be still clinging to the result of such a referendum

That's a Jack Staff quote if ever I heard one. We're you separated at birth?

It's nothing to do with Jack.

I'm furious with the anti democrats who have attempted to overturn the vote result from day one. That is an undeniable fact that they cannot deny.

You mean the referendum result that was illegally influenced, and, if it had been an binding referendum the result would have been declared unsafe due to the illegal actions of the Leave campaigns?

It's undemocratic to be still clinging to the result of such a referendum

Sorry Gill
Trying to be relatively polite
That's definitely clinging at straws

I'm not clinging to anything - it was just a reply to Barney, who insists on peppering nearly every single post with terms like 'anti-democrat'. I'm merely replying in the same vein. If he didn't keep posting in this way, then I wouldn't need to reply, and wouldn't have brought it up myself

[Gill W]

I'm furious with the anti democrats who have attempted to overturn the vote result from day one. That is an undeniable fact that they cannot deny.

You mean the referendum result that was illegally influenced, and, if it had been an binding referendum the result would have been declared unsafe due to the illegal actions of the Leave campaigns?

It's undemocratic to be still clinging to the result of such a referendum

I suspect that it is the algorithms finding topics of interest to you on social media sites that is the problem, on facebook mine only seems to find like minded leave postings, both of which result in only seeing posts that match your own point view.
As a result of only seeing our own thoughts reflected on the major social media sites one tends to assume everyone agrees with your point of view. Maybe this forum provides a better perspective than Twitter or Facebook?

I don't use Facebook.

As you know, I use Twitter, and I don't just rely on my personal feed to inform myself. I actively search to find out what both 'sides' are saying.

Maybe this forum provides a better perspective than Twitter or Facebook?

I also think that it does and it is perhaps interesting that we ( leavers ) each live in parts of the Country that are nowhere near each other, for the most part anyway.

This forum thread provides a very narrow perspective. It is almost exclusively used by people who voted for Brexit, and agree with each other on most points. If it wasn't for the handful of people who voted for Remain, this thread would be a complete echo chamber.

[Manoverboard]

This forum thread provides a very narrow perspective. It is almost exclusively used by people who voted for Brexit, and agree with each other on most points. If it wasn't for the handful of people who voted for Remain, this thread would be a complete echo chamber.

A very narrow perspective certainly but there are also a number who voted to Remain but have accepted the outcome of the vote unlike your good self and a couple of others it could be said.

Without those opposing views we would of course have posted far less, commenting only on the events ( or lack of ) as they unravelled. We would NOT have gone round and round in circles debating / arguing with Members who were focused mainly on a change in direction to the will of 17,000,000 Parliament approved voters.

[Onelife]

If it wasn't for a bunch of saboteurs the WA would have been done and dusted by now......We've had project fear, we've had project hysteria, both of which have failed to change public opinion... now...project 'extention'....remainers/sabotouers/traitors (take your pick) should take a long hard look at themselves because their actions certainly haven't helped move negotiations forward.....disgraceful behaviour!

[Gill W]

This forum thread provides a very narrow perspective. It is almost exclusively used by people who voted for Brexit, and agree with each other on most points. If it wasn't for the handful of people who voted for Remain, this thread would be a complete echo chamber.

A very narrow perspective certainly but there are also a number who voted to Remain but have accepted the outcome of the vote unlike your good self and a couple of others it could be said.

Without those opposing views we would of course have posted far less, commenting only on the events ( or lack of ) as they unravelled. We would NOT have gone round and round in circles debating / arguing with Members who were focused mainly on a change in direction to the will of 17,000,000 Parliament approved voters.

You are wrong - I did accept the outcome of the vote. I even said so on this forum, shortly after the referendum - I've gone back to check. Interestingly, I also called it a fair referendum...... although we now know the result was tainted by the illegal actions of the leave campaign.

However, there's been a lot of water under the bridge since then. If we were in the situation that the Leave campaigns promised, and we had easily made an advantageous deal, there wouldn't have been all this opposition. But as we know Leave promised the impossible, and coupled with the poor leadership we have endured we are where we are, and I'm not going to passively sit by and watch my country be wrecked, without speaking up about it.

The trouble is, for Leavers, it all seems to be about leaving, and nothing else. What happens next doesn't seem to matter. Some haven't even thought about what happens afterwards, others think there's going to be about a week of slight problems - others don't care what happens as long as we leave.

I would like to thank Annie - I think we've always managed to remain polite and civil in our conversations and I appreciate that.

However, just today the terms Anti-democrat, Bed wetters, Sabateours, Project Hysteria and Traitors are littering the posts.

It is impossible to talk to people who carelessly bandy such terms around in everyday conversation.

I will have to leave you to your echo chamber for the time being - I hope you enjoy it, just like I hope you enjoy your no deal Brexit.

[barney]

I nearly wet myself laughing at Peter Lyle on sky news this morning talking about his amendment that he 'may' propose, 'sometime in the future'.

He wants to accept the WA as it is, with the proviso that afterwards the government will commit to a referendum about it.
The question to be

Accept the WA deal
or
the status quo.

So, instead of deal or no deal, he wants deal or remain

So what about people who don't want the WA or Remain ?

My recollection is that we had already voted to leave, so surely IF there was to be another question asked, it could only be Deal or no Deal.

He then went on to have the cheek to say that he respected the vote in 2016 … but …. blah blah blah …..

The world has truly gone mad.

It could have been so very different if the losers accepted that their point of view is in the minority and got behind the country at it's time of need.
There should be a lot of head hanging when it's all over.

To my recollection, overlooking a few ridiculous quotes at the time, which nobody took very seriously, the Leave campaign promised little, but to leave the EU.
It's what has happened in between that has tried to thwart this.

[Manoverboard]

I give up, roll on the 29th March and we can talk about something else … like, at last we have finally left the EU

[barney]

Bizarrely, the EU is suggesting an extension of Article 50 and May is saying that she is not so keen on the idea
I'm sure that they think that the longer delay, the more chance of the UK staying in.

Begs the question, why would they want a disruptive nation like ours, to remain in their precious club?

There is no majority in the UK Parliament for a deal with the EU, but there was a majority in favour of holding an ‘in/out’ referendum, triggering Article 50, and passing the 2018 EU Withdrawal Act.

Logically, therefore, the UK government can only enact the will of Parliament and British voters, namely, to take the UK out of the EU.
A deal is optional, and would be dependent upon the EU offering the UK an acceptable deal via a process called ‘negotiation’.

Thus, logically, it is in the UK’s power to leave the EU, and it is in the EU’s power to offer a deal acceptable to the UK.
The EU therefore needs to decide whether it wants a Brexit deal or not.
Delaying this decision by another 2 or 3 months solves nothing and keeps the uncertainty that business craves.

[david63]

Begs the question, why would they want a disruptive nation like ours, to remain in their precious club?

Money?

[Jack Staff]

Seventy years of peace?

[barney]

Seventy years of peace?

I suspect David is nearer to the truth Jack, but good effort

[screwy]

Seventy years of peace?

Cyprus...Balkans..

[Jack Staff]

Seventy years of peace?

Cyprus...Balkans..

Exactly.

[screwy]

It wasn’t very peaceful in either conflicts Jack.I was there, where were you.?

[screwy]

And it was the UN not the Eu who were the peacekeepers.

[Jack Staff]

and then they joined the EU and it's been peaceful since.

[screwy]

Not quite your 70 yrs tho. Being picky I know.

[johnds]

And France is peaceful now with riots in the street every weekend or is that just weekend recreation