Current Affairs

[Gill W]

With the greatest respect keefy, that’s a load of nonsense.
If the only way to keep on top of the virus is a national lockdown, then what happens when the lockdown comes to an end.
Unless you are happy to live in a state of permanent lockdown until the vaccine is rolled out, then you’re just kicking the can down the road again.

As soon as the country reopens, it all starts again.
This is not unique to us.
If you read european press, it’s pretty much the same all over the continent.
The moans in the U.K. are exactly the same moans in France, Spain etc.
Comments in the Times of Malta today were asking why their government is not following the U.K. method of tiered stages?

Nothing short of a total lockdown and closure of the external border will eliminate this virus, as New Zealand have done.
Do you think that the U.K. population will put up with that?

Sorry Barney I missed your post….

There will be no solution until we have an effective vaccine so in the meantime, we need to look at the only tried and tested way of containing this virus to a level that doesn’t send thousands more to an early grave…any ideas?
I’ve already explained what I think could be a compromise to the problem but let’s carry on until we have no option but to lockdown for months…. that would be my definition of a load of nonsense.

Alternatively, keep the vulnerable and old duffers away from the points of contagion.
Stay home
Stay safe if you fall in to that bracket.
That’s my solution.
Until there is a vaccine.

I’m sure you are looking forward to your indefinite confinement!

[Gill W]

I never thought I would say it but I agree with Starmer, there may still be time for a short hard shutdown for 2-3 weeks to reset the country. That could protect the Christmas period giving the economy a much needed boost.

I can’t say I’m keen on the idea of another lockdown. But Whitty stood next to Johnson and said the current measures aren’t enough, so SOMETHING has got to be done.

But I’m not sure that the population will compliant

[Onelife]

I haven’t seen Sir Merv posting recently…he better tune and let us know he’s ok or else I’ll be sending Stephen round to check on him

[towny44]

However, it did work for them

But it won't work for us

When social distancing is part of the fabric of your society then it is much easier to prevent the infection spreading.

They live in cities. They aren’t all spread out equally over the entire country!

Gill, have you been to NZ Gill? Apart from Aucland, most other "cities" are tiny villages with long distances between them, with little or no social interaction. It is therefore much easier to control any outbreak, and with a tiny population of about 4 million, it is much easier, cheaper and far faster to sort out a track and trace system.

[Gill W]

When social distancing is part of the fabric of your society then it is much easier to prevent the infection spreading.

They live in cities. They aren’t all spread out equally over the entire country!

Gill, have you been to NZ Gill? Apart from Aucland, most other "cities" are tiny villages with long distances between them, with little or no social interaction. It is therefore much easier to control any outbreak, and with a tiny population of about 4 million, it is much easier, cheaper and far faster to sort out a track and trace system.

Yes, I have been to New Zealand. I did two legs of the Aurora 2017 World Cruise, calling at Dunedin, Akoroa (for Christchurch), Wellington, Tauranga and Auckland. They definitely weren’t small villages, but vibrant, bustling towns and cities, apart from Akoroa which was a pleasant seaside town

A quick Google reveals that 86.62% of New Zealander’s live in urban areas

[david63]

I did two legs of the Aurora 2017 World Cruise, calling at Dunedin, Akoroa (for Christchurch), Wellington, Tauranga and Auckland.

So that was what six/seven days in NZ?

Having spent at various times the best part of six months in NZ and having been around 85% of the coastline of both North & South Island I can assure you that NZ "cities" are nothing like the cities in the UK. They are far smaller, in fact most towns in the UK are larger than NZ "cities". Not only that they do not have the population density that we have in the UK nor do they have the same type of housing. There are no blocks of terraced houses with three or four families to a house. Another thing to bear in mind about NZ is that they enjoy an outdoor lifestyle.

Trying to compare NZ to the UK is like comparing apples to oranges

[towny44]

They live in cities. They aren’t all spread out equally over the entire country!

Gill, have you been to NZ Gill? Apart from Aucland, most other "cities" are tiny villages with long distances between them, with little or no social interaction. It is therefore much easier to control any outbreak, and with a tiny population of about 4 million, it is much easier, cheaper and far faster to sort out a track and trace system.

Yes, I have been to New Zealand. I did two legs of the Aurora 2017 World Cruise, calling at Dunedin, Akoroa (for Christchurch), Wellington, Tauranga and Auckland. They definitely weren’t small villages, but vibrant, bustling towns and cities, apart from Akoroa which was a pleasant seaside town

A quick Google reveals that 86.62% of New Zealander’s live in urban areas

I remember Dunedin as being a quiet seaside town where we were definitely in the majority. Christchurch was a little bigger, but again ship passengers were in the majority, and Taranga was even smaller. Auckland was way bigger and much busier, but even here tourists made up by far the biggest number, and the couple of little towns we visited on a rail journey were minuscule, and I think even I could have brought the virus under control, here, especially in a country where it was so easy to close down its borders, and test everyone who entered the country.

[barney]

For those calling for a national lockdown, let’s put this into perspective.
In Torridge, the infection rate is currently 18 per 100,000.
There have been 83 covid infections in total since the start of coronavirus.
This is despite the tourist arrivals and events like the Appledore book fair.
So, I’m in favour of lockdown where necessary, but it’s certainly not needed where we live.
Not at the moment anyway.

[towny44]

For those in favour of Keir Stamers circuit breaker, I would ask them what good would a 2-3 week lockdown be, it took us about 3 months last time to get the infection rate under control, before we started the slow process of getting the economy restarted in little baby steps, which took a further 2 months at least.
Knowing this, what sort of impact do they think even a 3 week lockdown would have on the infection rate, and how quickly do they envisage it would be back to concerning levels once more, with the scientists demanding another circuit break.
I do despair that anyone should be hoodwinked into thinking that anything other than complete observance of the regimes that the govt. have been proposing since the beginning of this pandemic, will be successful in bringing it under control, and enabling us to co-exist with Covid19 until we have a viable vaccine.
Possibly my other idea of compulsory euthanasia for rule breakers might be just the incentive that's needed.

[Gill W]

I did two legs of the Aurora 2017 World Cruise, calling at Dunedin, Akoroa (for Christchurch), Wellington, Tauranga and Auckland.

So that was what six/seven days in NZ?

Having spent at various times the best part of six months in NZ and having been around 85% of the coastline of both North & South Island I can assure you that NZ "cities" are nothing like the cities in the UK. They are far smaller, in fact most towns in the UK are larger than NZ "cities". Not only that they do not have the population density that we have in the UK nor do they have the same type of housing. There are no blocks of terraced houses with three or four families to a house. Another thing to bear in mind about NZ is that they enjoy an outdoor lifestyle.

Trying to compare NZ to the UK is like comparing apples to oranges

I’m not trying to compare NZ to the U.K.

I was saying why I thought the New Zealand approach worked in New Zealand

[Gill W]

For those in favour of Keir Stamers circuit breaker, I would ask them what good would a 2-3 week lockdown be, it took us about 3 months last time to get the infection rate under control, before we started the slow process of getting the economy restarted in little baby steps, which took a further 2 months at least.
Knowing this, what sort of impact do they think even a 3 week lockdown would have on the infection rate, and how quickly do they envisage it would be back to concerning levels once more, with the scientists demanding another circuit break.
I do despair that anyone should be hoodwinked into thinking that anything other than complete observance of the regimes that the govt. have been proposing since the beginning of this pandemic, will be successful in bringing it under control, and enabling us to co-exist with Covid19 until we have a viable vaccine.
Possibly my other idea of compulsory euthanasia for rule breakers might be just the incentive that's needed.

I can’t say that I’m particularly in favour or not in favour of this ‘circuit breaker’

I made exactly the same point as you yesterday, that it took three months to get the cases down to a level where it was possible for us all to have some freedoms and to live with the virus, for a while at least.

However, we seem to have squandered our good position, and as we know virus cases are on the rise, dangerously so in some areas.

Whitty said that the current regulations weren’t enough, so the circuit breaker is SOMETHING they could do, but it would only have a minimal effect.

As in March, they’ve prevaricated too long and the virus has started to get out of control in some areas. I do worry that it’ll get so bad that they won’t be able to do anything other than lock us down, with all the economic damage that will cause.


Frankly, I have no answers, except to monitor the situation in my own area, and to prepare myself for the long winter, and manage my outings as I feel is appropriate.

That’s all any of us can do.

[Gill W]

For those calling for a national lockdown, let’s put this into perspective.
In Torridge, the infection rate is currently 18 per 100,000.
There have been 83 covid infections in total since the start of coronavirus.
This is despite the tourist arrivals and events like the Appledore book fair.
So, I’m in favour of lockdown where necessary, but it’s certainly not needed where we live.
Not at the moment anyway.

A couple of weeks ago, our infection rate was 12 per 100,000, the latest figure is 35 per 100,000, so it is beginning to rise, but still under the England average.

I have got into the habit of checking everyday, as things can move quite quickly.

[Kendhni]

For those in favour of Keir Stamers circuit breaker, I would ask them what good would a 2-3 week lockdown be, it took us about 3 months last time to get the infection rate under control, before we started the slow process of getting the economy restarted in little baby steps, which took a further 2 months at least.
Knowing this, what sort of impact do they think even a 3 week lockdown would have on the infection rate, and how quickly do they envisage it would be back to concerning levels once more, with the scientists demanding another circuit break.
I do despair that anyone should be hoodwinked into thinking that anything other than complete observance of the regimes that the govt. have been proposing since the beginning of this pandemic, will be successful in bringing it under control, and enabling us to co-exist with Covid19 until we have a viable vaccine.
Possibly my other idea of compulsory euthanasia for rule breakers might be just the incentive that's needed.

I can’t say that I’m particularly in favour or not in favour of this ‘circuit breaker’

I made exactly the same point as you yesterday, that it took three months to get the cases down to a level where it was possible for us all to have some freedoms and to live with the virus, for a while at least.

However, we seem to have squandered our good position, and as we know virus cases are on the rise, dangerously so in some areas.

Whitty said that the current regulations weren’t enough, so the circuit breaker is SOMETHING they could do, but it would only have a minimal effect.

As in March, they’ve prevaricated too long and the virus has started to get out of control in some areas. I do worry that it’ll get so bad that they won’t be able to do anything other than lock us down, with all the economic damage that will cause.


Frankly, I have no answers, except to monitor the situation in my own area, and to prepare myself for the long winter, and manage my outings as I feel is appropriate.

That’s all any of us can do.

I agree with you he has wasted what it took them 3 months to achieve.

At least this time the government lackies can't try to rewrite history and cower behind the word 'hindsight'. The advice for several weeks has been to lockdown for a short period to block the spread and get the R number under control ... exactly what Johnson said he would do with his 5 tier system. All he has done is come out with a new 3-tier system and new sound bites. This government is good for a sound bite ... little else though.

I think he still can save the Christmas period ... the time when some businesses do up to 60% of their annual trading. But he has to stop bumbling about like a buffoon and take decisive action, instead of prevaricating and pandering to a precious minority.

[Kendhni]

I never thought I would say it but I agree with Starmer, there may still be time for a short hard shutdown for 2-3 weeks to reset the country. That could protect the Christmas period giving the economy a much needed boost.

Had he had the foresight/courage to say what some of us were saying weeks/ months ago then I would give credit where credit due, but he didn’t so in my book he is just as weak as Boris.

Bring back Theresa

To be fair, Starmer has at least, not voted against the government, but he did speak out about stronger measures several times over the last few weeks - to the point that the unions have been on his back (those union hypocrites must miss the days when they had their own muppet fully under their control).

Starmer was slow out of the starting blocks but as his confidence grows he has been getting the better of the exchanges between himself and Johnson lately.

[Stephen]

I haven’t seen Sir Merv posting recently…he better tune and let us know he’s ok or else I’ll be sending Stephen round to check on him

I believe he's been in hospital. And if you think I'm venturing up North, you can thing again.

[Gill W]

I remember Dunedin as being a quiet seaside town where we were definitely in the majority. Christchurch was a little bigger, but again ship passengers were in the majority, and Taranga was even smaller. Auckland was way bigger and much busier, but even here tourists made up by far the biggest number, and the couple of little towns we visited on a rail journey were minuscule, and I think even I could have brought the virus under control, here, especially in a country where it was so easy to close down its borders, and test everyone who entered the country.

Did you go into Dunedin, as it’s a drive away from the port town. Dunedin is a city of 128000 people, so if you outnumbered the locals, you were on a big ship!

Our ship didn’t go into Christchurch, as they couldn’t use the dock due to earthquake damage. Our stop for Christchurch was Akoroa, about an hour and a half’s drive away. We didn’t go to Christchurch, but the population of Christchurch is about 380,000, so if you outnumbered the locals there, you were on a seriously massive ship!

These places are hardly the sleepy villages that you have implied

[Manoverboard]

I haven’t seen Sir Merv posting recently…he better tune and let us know he’s ok or else I’ll be sending Stephen round to check on him

I believe he's been in hospital. And if you think I'm venturing up North, you can thing again.

Sir Merv lives in the Midlands I'll have you know and he pops in for a look see from time to time

In spite of all his faults I doubt he will be unduly tempted to comment on the cheap point scoring, nit picking one sided know it all postings from the usual suspects on this Topic but he will be most welcome if he does.

[Gill W]

I agree with you he has wasted what it took them 3 months to achieve.

At least this time the government lackies can't try to rewrite history and cower behind the word 'hindsight'. The advice for several weeks has been to lockdown for a short period to block the spread and get the R number under control ... exactly what Johnson said he would do with his 5 tier system. All he has done is come out with a new 3-tier system and new sound bites. This government is good for a sound bite ... little else though.

I think he still can save the Christmas period ... the time when some businesses do up to 60% of their annual trading. But he has to stop bumbling about like a buffoon and take decisive action, instead of prevaricating and pandering to a precious minority.

Back in May, I suggested on this very board that they’d soon disregard their 5 tier Covid alert system and the R number. Although this was treated by much skepticism on this board, I don’t think I was far wrong.

They never really adhered to their 5 tier system - they started opening up the country while we were still at level 4, and we should be back at level 4 now, with a full lockdown, if they hadn’t chucked their own system out of the window.

[Gill W]

I haven’t seen Sir Merv posting recently…he better tune and let us know he’s ok or else I’ll be sending Stephen round to check on him

I believe he's been in hospital. And if you think I'm venturing up North, you can thing again.

Sir Merv lives in the Midlands I'll have you know and he pops in for a look see from time to time

In spite of all his faults I doubt he will be unduly tempted to comment on the cheap point scoring, nit picking one sided know it all postings from the usual suspects on this Topic but he will be most welcome if he does.

I wish Merv well.

I recognise many people on this thread from your description

[Onelife]

For those in favour of Keir Stamers circuit breaker, I would ask them what good would a 2-3 week lockdown be, it took us about 3 months last time to get the infection rate under control, before we started the slow process of getting the economy restarted in little baby steps, which took a further 2 months at least.
Knowing this, what sort of impact do they think even a 3 week lockdown would have on the infection rate, and how quickly do they envisage it would be back to concerning levels once more, with the scientists demanding another circuit break.
I do despair that anyone should be hoodwinked into thinking that anything other than complete observance of the regimes that the govt. have been proposing since the beginning of this pandemic, will be successful in bringing it under control, and enabling us to co-exist with Covid19 until we have a viable vaccine.
Possibly my other idea of compulsory euthanasia for rule breakers might be just the incentive that's needed.

Hi John,

I'm not quite sure what you are advocating other than sticking with Boris's " let's wait as see" traffic light system?

The obvious way forward is to have a 2/3 three full lockdown followed by a well policed traffic light system.

I see Liverpool were out partying again last night.....time to bring in the army with on the spot fines.

[Onelife]

I haven’t seen Sir Merv posting recently…he better tune and let us know he’s ok or else I’ll be sending Stephen round to check on him

I believe he's been in hospital. And if you think I'm venturing up North, you can thing again.

Thanks Stephen, now that you've mentioned it l do recall him saying something about hospitals?

[Onelife]

I haven’t seen Sir Merv posting recently…he better tune and let us know he’s ok or else I’ll be sending Stephen round to check on him

I believe he's been in hospital. And if you think I'm venturing up North, you can thing again.

Sir Merv lives in the Midlands I'll have you know and he pops in for a look see from time to time

In spite of all his faults I doubt he will be unduly tempted to comment on the cheap point scoring, nit picking one sided know it all postings from the usual suspects on this Topic but he will be most welcome if he does.

It's not like you to sit on the fence Mob...name and shame the culprits l say

[barney]

The obvious problem with another national lockdown is ..... then what ?

Lockdown for two weeks, three weeks, four weeks six months, ..... then what ?

As soon as society reopens, it all starts again without a vaccine.

I must admit that Mrs B said this morning that she’s been so busy since reopening on 23rd June that she could do with a couple of weeks off as it’s been just her at the shop.
She had Sunday and Monday off for goodness sake.
What’s wrong with these people

[screwy]

For those in favour of Keir Stamers circuit breaker, I would ask them what good would a 2-3 week lockdown be, it took us about 3 months last time to get the infection rate under control, before we started the slow process of getting the economy restarted in little baby steps, which took a further 2 months at least.
Knowing this, what sort of impact do they think even a 3 week lockdown would have on the infection rate, and how quickly do they envisage it would be back to concerning levels once more, with the scientists demanding another circuit break.
I do despair that anyone should be hoodwinked into thinking that anything other than complete observance of the regimes that the govt. have been proposing since the beginning of this pandemic, will be successful in bringing it under control, and enabling us to co-exist with Covid19 until we have a viable vaccine.
Possibly my other idea of compulsory euthanasia for rule breakers might be just the incentive that's needed.

Hi John,

I'm not quite sure what you are advocating other than sticking with Boris's " let's wait as see" traffic light system?

The obvious way forward is to have a 2/3 three full lockdown followed by a well policed traffic light system.

I see Liverpool were out partying again last night.....time to bring in the army with on the spot fines.

Never mind on the spot fines.....tear gas and baton rounds,followed with water cannon spraying foul liquids. Bugger their human rights.

[Stephen]

I haven’t seen Sir Merv posting recently…he better tune and let us know he’s ok or else I’ll be sending Stephen round to check on him

I believe he's been in hospital. And if you think I'm venturing up North, you can thing again.

Sir Merv lives in the Midlands I'll have you know and he pops in for a look see from time to time

In spite of all his faults I doubt he will be unduly tempted to comment on the cheap point scoring, nit picking one sided know it all postings from the usual suspects on this Topic but he will be most welcome if he does.

That's still North to me.

I distinctly remember him saying that he was going into hospital for a small procedure which I assumed was why he hasn't been on the forum lately, but perhaps you are better informed Moby.