Brexit

[oldbluefox]

If few have changed their minds then surely the result will be the same. On that basis there's no point.

[Gill W]

No, I'm suggesting that, when the electorate have something tangible to consider, shouldn't they be asked if their will is still to leave.

Two years ago, I accepted the result of the referendum. I expected the government to deal with the exit negotiations in an orderly way, and at this point, expected to have some clarity on the future of my country. But that hasn't happened. Instead we are getting technical notices from the government on how to cope with a no deal Brexit, and are stockpiling medicines. In the light of this, it might be reasonable to wonder if the will of the people has changed. Surely, it would be sane to ask them, once we know what the terms of our exit would be?

I think it's undemocratic not to ask.

In my opinion Gill, it's 80% that the UK leave without a deal. The EU cannot be seen to a compromise on their 'four freedoms' with Ex members.
If they did, the flood gates would open.
After that, both sides can then start serious discussions about a free trade agreement that benefits both sides.
Leaving the EU without a trade agreement will not be the end of the world.
They will agree many 11th hour things like movement of freight and flights etc, but the nuts and bolts of a trade deal will have to wait until we are a third country.

PS most polls indicate that few have changed their minds, either way.
The presumption of a Remain vote on another referendum is exactly that. A presumption. ( as was the first vote)
I think that most just want the whole thing over and done with.

This is just my opinion and is based on no absolute fact. I do not have a crystal ball.

If few have changed their minds then no leaver should fear a second vote

That may be so Gill but if there were to be a second vote with the same amount of votes cast but the other way round would the brexiteers get a deciding vote......or would we just be going round in circles?....what would it be the next time....vote rigging?

This is voting on whether to leave of the terms of the deal (or no deal). Why would there need to be another vote, whichever way it went

[Gill W]

If few have changed their minds then surely the result will be the same. On that basis there's no point.

Well, we won’t know for sure unless there’s another referendum on the deal (or no deal). However, there does appear to be wave of comment on line that suggests that the appetite for Brexit has deceased, due to the growing belief that it will be damaging for the country.

What do we do, completely ignore public opinion or put it to the country again when our exit strategy is revealed?

[Mervyn and Trish]

The problem with a second vote is this. The EU don't want us to leave. If their negotiators knew there was going to be another vote on the offered terms they would be absolutely guaranteed to offer us the worst possible terms to ensure that vote went the way they want. That is why leading remainers want another vote.

If they know we are leaving irrespective of the terms they will agree the terms which minimise disruption for both the EU and the UK.

To even suggest a second vote weakens our negotiating position.

[Gill W]

I don’t think it’ll make any difference to our negotiating position which is already weak.


A few weeks ago it the government said it wanted the deal sorted by October.

It now looks as if this date is slipping, according to a Bloomberg report that I saw

It seems no headway is being made at all - and this is with the govt saying they won’t entertain a second referendum, so don't see how a second referendum could make things even worse than they are now

As time goes by, no deal seems even more likely, which is what no one wants, apart from some Brexiters

[Mervyn and Trish]

Not according to ITV news last night, reporting optimistic noises from both sides in the negotiation. And they're not even the Daily Mail.

[towny44]

Not according to ITV news last night, reporting optimistic noises from both sides in the negotiation. And they're not even the Daily Mail.

.............and they are not the BBC either Merv, whatever are you doing going over to the dark side?

[Gill W]

Time will tell who is closer to the truth. In the meantime, you people carry on clinging to your Brexit faith. If it goes hideously wrong, don’t forget the part you played in it.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Not according to ITV news last night, reporting optimistic noises from both sides in the negotiation. And they're not even the Daily Mail.

.............and they are not the BBC either Merv, whatever are you doing going over to the dark side?

Couldn't be bothered to reach for the remote control after the previous programme. ....

[screwy]

Barnier willing to offer the UK a special deal like as not been seen before to a third party.? Eu’s mask beginners to slip.?

[david63]

Eu’s mask beginners to slip.?

Or common sense prevailing at last

[Onelife]

Barnier willing to offer the UK a special deal like as not been seen before to a third party.? Eu’s mask beginners to slip.?

l'll take that with a pinch of salt....Theresa needs to stay strong, the bigger game is about to start.

[Jack Staff]

You guys do realise this is all about the withdrawal agreement and nothing to do with the Chequers deal, right?

[Onelife]

You guys do realise this is all about the withdrawal agreement and nothing to do with the Chequers deal, right?

I have no idea what Barniers special deal consists of...have you? As long as it gives us a way out of the signal market and customs union l'm up for it

[Jack Staff]

You guys do realise this is all about the withdrawal agreement and nothing to do with the Chequers deal, right?

I have no idea what Barniers special deal consists of...have you? As long as it gives us a way out of the signal market and customs union l'm up for it

Yes I have, here it is...
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/news/am ... -aug-02_en

[Onelife]

You and your links Jack

Now tell me what is in this so called "special deal"

[Jack Staff]

You and your links Jack

Now tell me what is in this so called "special deal"

Nothing really, that's all Brexiter hype. It does imply a softening on NI, therefore giving more time to negotiate. Or rather, more time for the UK to come to its' senses.

[towny44]

You guys do realise this is all about the withdrawal agreement and nothing to do with the Chequers deal, right?

Why would Barnier then refer to it being a better deal than offered to any other country; as far as I am aware we are the first country to leave the EU. Think again Jack.

[Jack Staff]

You guys do realise this is all about the withdrawal agreement and nothing to do with the Chequers deal, right?

Why would Barnier then refer to it being a better deal than offered to any other country; as far as I am aware we are the first country to leave the EU. Think again Jack.

TBH I wasn't aware he had actually, can't be across every media outlet. Can you show me that please.

Debatable point, you forgot Greenland.

[Manoverboard]

Time will tell who is closer to the truth. In the meantime, you people carry on clinging to your Brexit faith. If it goes hideously wrong, don’t forget the part you played in it.

The part I played was having just the one vote, same as you …. everything else is pure speculation as none of us has any actual control of, or over, the events.

ps … I am still entirely happy about the way I voted and will have no regrets upon our exit .

[Mervyn and Trish]

You guys do realise this is all about the withdrawal agreement and nothing to do with the Chequers deal, right?

Really Jack? So how many third parties have previously left the EU such that Barnier can say he's going to offer a better deal than any has had before?

[Mervyn and Trish]

Sorry just saw John's post. Great minds eh?

[Mervyn and Trish]

You guys do realise this is all about the withdrawal agreement and nothing to do with the Chequers deal, right?

Why would Barnier then refer to it being a better deal than offered to any other country; as far as I am aware we are the first country to leave the EU. Think again Jack.

TBH I wasn't aware he had actually, can't be across every media outlet. Can you show me that please.

Debatable point, you forgot Greenland.

It's a shame you claim to speak with authority Jack when you admit you are not across it. I suppose it is not in your repertoire to concede that progress might be being made towards an orderly and mutually acceptable exit.

[Jack Staff]

You guys do realise this is all about the withdrawal agreement and nothing to do with the Chequers deal, right?

Why would Barnier then refer to it being a better deal than offered to any other country; as far as I am aware we are the first country to leave the EU. Think again Jack.

TBH I wasn't aware he had actually, can't be across every media outlet. Can you show me that please.

Debatable point, you forgot Greenland.

It's a shame you claim to speak with authority Jack when you admit you are not across it. I suppose it is not in your repertoire to concede that progress might be being made towards an orderly and mutually acceptable exit.

I will happily admit I missed this specific comment. I have already.
I am not going to comment or concede on anything I haven't seen now am I?
Perhaps you could help me and provide a link?

You and your links Jack

It just makes life so much easier for everyone else, Keith.

[Gill W]

Time will tell who is closer to the truth. In the meantime, you people carry on clinging to your Brexit faith. If it goes hideously wrong, don’t forget the part you played in it.

The part I played was having just the one vote, same as you …. everything else is pure speculation as none of us has any actual control of, or over, the events.

ps … I am still entirely happy about the way I voted and will have no regrets upon our exit .

Good for you and everybody who is running towards the cliff. You lot voted for it, and despite everything that's suggesting that it's not going to be good for the country, none of you even pause to think if its such a great idea after all. That's your part in it. If it goes pear shaped, I won't expect to hear ANY moaning from the Brexit supporting majority on this forum. After all it's what you want, whatever the cost