Current Affairs

[oldbluefox]

Yeah, who wants the Scots now we have used up all their oil.
Remind me, where is Faslane?

In which case why would they vote for independence if their oil is depleted and thousands will be laid off because Mrs Krankie wants to go nuclear free?

[Jack Staff]

Yeah, who wants the Scots now we have used up all their oil.
Remind me, where is Faslane?

In which case why would they vote for independence if their oil is depleted and thousands will be laid off because Mrs Krankie wants to go nuclear free?

Search me. I'm not Scottish. Maybe they just want to get away from the English?

[Mervyn and Trish]

Yeah, who wants the Scots now we have used up all their oil.
Remind me, where is Faslane?

In which case why would they vote for independence if their oil is depleted and thousands will be laid off because Mrs Krankie wants to go nuclear free?

Search me. I'm not Scottish. Maybe they just want to get away from the English?

Actually the latest polls show that fewer would if another referendum was called today.

Indeed polls also show fewer Brits would vote to stay in the EU if another referendum was called today.

But both are side issues. My main point was about the bare faced cheek of Mrs Krankie boasting about paying Scottish NHS workers more than the Englidh at the expense of Englidh tax payers.

[Jack Staff]

Yeah, who wants the Scots now we have used up all their oil.
Remind me, where is Faslane?

In which case why would they vote for independence if their oil is depleted and thousands will be laid off because Mrs Krankie wants to go nuclear free?

Search me. I'm not Scottish. Maybe they just want to get away from the English?

Actually the latest polls show that fewer would if another referendum was called today.

Indeed polls also show fewer Brits would vote to stay in the EU if another referendum was called today.

Not in the polls I'm looking at. But remember, we're not allowed to talk about that here any more.

But both are side issues. My main point was about the bare faced cheek of Mrs Krankie boasting about paying Scottish NHS workers more than the Englidh at the expense of Englidh tax payers.

Have you developed a lisp?

[oldbluefox]

The Times were reporting that the Tories, earlier in the year, were 16 points behind the Labour party. A recent poll showed the Tories 7 points ahead. Must be the attraction of Anna Soubry.

[barney]

I fear that Corbyn had that one chance and they failed to take it.
They did however do a wonderful job of acknowledging defeat as some kind of victory.

Given enough preparation time, the Tories will drive a bus through Corbyn and McDonnell's fiscal policies.
While it all sounds wonderful. it just doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Last election, they spent the same money about six times, on different things.

Tax the rich is a great mantra, but being rich gives an individual one major thing that poorer people don't have.
That thing is choice.
If you are rich, you can choose where you live, and what you want to pay for things. You have the choice to set up off shore trusts and pay top accountants to manage your money.

So, it's about balance isn't it.
Tax at a level that the rich find acceptable but not enough to kill the golden goose.
The top 1% of tax payers contribute 27% of the UK income tax revenue.
Those with the broadest shoulders must bear the responsibility says Ms Abbott.
Well, by those calculations, I'd say that they do.

Assuming that this parliament runs full term to 2022, I predict May will be gone, and that Corbyn will get one more shot at being PM.
Should he fail, he will be replaced by someone even more hard left, because it's not their message that is wrong, it is us idiots who don't understand it.
There is even a good chance of a new third party coming along. Maybe one that campaigns to join the EU …. but that's for another thread

[barney]

Where do you stand on the moral dilemma of NGO ships transporting migrants from Libya to Italy ?

Tricky one really. Are they genuinely rescuing people or complicit in the illegal trafficking?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... terranean/

We have friends in Malta and they agree that Malta should not take any due to it's size and that all of the 'migrants' should go on to mainland Europe.

Italy currently has 500,000 stuck there with no option to move on.

A tricky one to call. Impound the NGO ships and folk will drown. Allow them to continue and more and more will chance it safe in the knowledge that they will be picked up.

[towny44]

The saying you have to be cruel to be kind springs to mind when considering how to deal the migrant issue.
There has to be some way to discourage the economic migration from poorer countries into Europe, otherwise the extreme right will continue to use this migration to grow their support. But I accept that the leftish govts in Europe will never condone anything less than humanitarian treatment.

[Jack Staff]

I fear that Corbyn had ....

I have to concur with the basic premise of your post.
Though I think, at this time, that policy discussion of the two sides is academic.
Both Corbyn and May are losing support rapidly, but like two skydivers they compare their popularity to each other, with no reference to the most important vector, the quickly approaching ground.
Things could change at any moment. With Davis threatening resignation almost weekly and Johnson attempting to be sacked almost as frequently, things could look very different this time next week!
Labour know Corbyn is a liability election wise. Some in the party may force a change. May might take this opportunity to right the mistake of GE17 against a leaderless/new leader Labour.
Both parties are irrevocably split over [redacted] and the possibility of a SDP type party of the 80's is getting to be quite a possibility as you suggest.
We live in interesting times...

[Jack Staff]

Where do you stand on the moral dilemma of NGO ships transporting migrants from Libya to Italy ?

You may have seen a show called Cruises from Hell (C4 17th May, only just got around to watching*). They showed footage of a Princess ship picking up refugees, one of which was heavily pregnant. So pregnant in fact that the ship had to turn around to get into helicopter range of Italy, where she gave birth the next day.
I was on board and the events of the night meant we missed our scheduled call at Corfu.
We repeated the cruise the next year and it was obvious that we took a far more Northerly course.
I can only assume to avoid saving human life.
But the ship is only there in the first place to take me (and others of course) to Corfu.
If the ship doesn't go where it's supposed to I (and others of course) don't go on the ship.
If the ship has no passengers it would not go at all.

So my answer to the question is I'm conflicted.

Specifically about NGO's, the same could be said for (say) Save the Children? We could just let these people die in the desert then the above 'problem' disappears, no?

* Yes Merv, because I was on a cruise.

[Manoverboard]

The problem of African economic migrants will be never ending unless and until a firm line is taken.

It is a simple enough task to track ships and so if one sails from Libya then it is returned to Libya …. together with a wad of rations and clothes etc.

At the end of the day the good folk of Malta, Sicily and / or those living on the Italian coastal regions simply cannot cope for ever nor should they be expected to, no surprise to me that a refusal has occurred.

[gilly88]

the migrant problem pulls at the heart, but I don't think that the solution lies with bringing them to Europe. the European union should organize a centre for immigration in north Africa (Libya, say?) then process the migrants there and give them safe passage if they qualify for migrant status. all others should be told there is no back door, and if caught trying to get into Europe they will be returned to there own country. no more excuses they need to sort this.

[towny44]

World reaction, according to the BBC news, to the Trump & Kim summit seems rather muted and any achievement is being downplayed. However if Obama had been involved I imagine the reaction would have far more euphoric.

[Jack Staff]

World reaction, according to the BBC news, to the Trump & Kim summit seems rather muted and any achievement is being downplayed. However if Obama had been involved I imagine the reaction would have far more euphoric.

Yes you are correct. Obama would have got a worthy deal (I imagine). Trump however has been played by Kim and the Chinese, (hence the world reaction) but he did get his headlines for today, which is all he cares about.

[towny44]

There was a worrying statistic in today's paper, latest figures show that 28% of births in the UK are now to women who were not born here. The impact that will have on the future generations is rather disturbing, unless there is much more integration than there is at present.

[Jack Staff]

There was a worrying statistic in today's paper, latest figures show that 28% of births in the UK are now to women who were not born here. The impact that will have on the future generations is rather disturbing, unless there is much more integration than there is at present.

"Number of children being born in Britain hits 10-year low"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 66101.html
Good job we have these women 'not born here' stepping up to the job then!
You may notice that article is from November and includes your 28% figure. Good job you didn't describe "today's paper" as a newspaper!

[towny44]

There was a worrying statistic in today's paper, latest figures show that 28% of births in the UK are now to women who were not born here. The impact that will have on the future generations is rather disturbing, unless there is much more integration than there is at present.

"Number of children being born in Britain hits 10-year low"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 66101.html
Good job we have these women 'not born here' stepping up to the job then!
You may notice that article is from November and includes your 28% figure. Good job you didn't describe "today's paper" as a newspaper!

But with more robotics and automation will we need these extra workers, or will they just become a major problem for our Education, NHS, Social services and Benefits depts.
I could never be accused of being a Green, but even I am getting concerned that we are fast denuding this planet of it's natural resources, and encouraging economic immigration from Africa and Asia makes me very concerned for our future.

[Onelife]

One of the problems with migrants is that many of them come from cultures where large families are the norm.......nowt wrong with that as long as they can feed, cloth and provide for their families.......most can't!

[barney]

I suppose the real question to be asking is how large a population does this country want?

70 million ?
80 million ?
100 million ?

I wonder what those who wish us to remain in the EU think? 100 million is a nice round number. Let's aim for that.

If the Inteligencia think that uncontrolled immigration is a good thing, we may as well take in a couple of million refugees from Africa and be done with it. They'll breed like rabbits.
All will be wonderful in LaLa land.

[david63]

Are we starting to see the beginning of the end of the Labour Party with the resignation of the Whip by Frank Field?

[Jack Staff]

Are we starting to see the beginning of the end of the Labour Party with the resignation of the Whip by Frank Field?

No, but the current leadership? We can live in hope.

[oldbluefox]

He is the one politician I really respect. Apparently he resigned from the Tory party over apartheid. He was asked to think the unthinkable over social policy and welfare by Bliar and when he did he was removed from the post. A true pragmatist who was never afraid to say what he really felt irrespective of what everybody else around him was saying. Sad that he felt the need to resign but not surprised bearing in mind what is going on in the Labour party. I feel sure Momentum will sort it out!!!

[Onelife]

Frank Field is a man of principle and one of few MP'S who really cared about the poorest in this country. Sadly when he was charged with doing something about it both sides of parliament turned their back on him.

Good honest men are hard to come by in politics.....but l have no doubt his voice will be heard even louder from the back benches.

[CaroleF]

I agree, I'm definitely not a Labour supporter but I do admire Frank Field. I hope his voice is heard loud and clear from the back benches and I hope his supporters vote for him at the next election if he has to stand as an Independent.

[Onelife]

I agree, I'm definitely not a Labour supporter but I do admire Frank Field. I hope his voice is heard loud and clear from the back benches and I hope his supporters vote for him at the next election if he has to stand as an Independent.

Frank Field could do Corbyn losts of damage so it'll be no surprise if he is ousted from the Labour and stands as an independent.....independent candidates generally don't fair well in general elections but he would most likely buck that trend.