Brexit

[Gill W]

Look. We sell stuff to Europe, they sell stuff to us. It make no economic sense for anyone to stop doing that once Brexit comes into play. If the scare monger remainers are so concerned, the ferry leaves in a couple of hours.

Nuff said.

The question being, is everything going to be in place in 7 short months time to allow that trade to continue unhindered

[towny44]

Look. We sell stuff to Europe, they sell stuff to us. It make no economic sense for anyone to stop doing that once Brexit comes into play. If the scare monger remainers are so concerned, the ferry leaves in a couple of hours.

Nuff said.

The question being, is everything going to be in place in 7 short months time to allow that trade to continue unhindered

Gill, If there is an agreement then during the transitional period the status quo continues, so we have about 28 months to sort out a system for post brexit. However since all the system data currently exists, it should not be beyond the IT industry to clone the bits that stay the same and amend those that need altering, we just have to hope it's not P&O's IT engineers who do the work.

[Gill W]

Now I've got all that off my chest maybe it's time to retire from this thread again. I'm beginning to find the discussion as offensive as Gill did previously, which was why I set this thread up so she could avoid it.

I never wanted to avoid talking about Brexit. I had hoped that, as we've all known each other for some time, we'd be able to talk amicably about it, without the name calling that goes on else where.

However, I found that the constant reference to 'Romoaners', was something that made me feel very uncomfortable as I was in a minority. I did try to explain this about a year or so ago, but no one wanted to tone down the rhetoric, so this thread was created, so people could carry with the name calling and it didn't spill over into other areas of the board.

I've nearly left the board twice due to Brexit - but it's so important that I need to talk about it, with as many people as possible.

The good news is, the Brexit barbs just bounce off me now. I've also had to take an 'if you can't beat them join them attitude', so I've stopped moderating my language.

I'm sorry you are finding this thread offensive Mervyn - but it'll give you an insight in to what I was feeling last year.

[Onelife]

Gill wrote.....

"The good news is, the Brexit barbs just bounce off me now. I've also had to take an 'if you can't beat them join them attitude', so I've stopped moderating my language"

The way to go Gill

It's how the UK used to be......give as good as you get then laugh about it afterwards.

[towny44]

Now I've got all that off my chest maybe it's time to retire from this thread again. I'm beginning to find the discussion as offensive as Gill did previously, which was why I set this thread up so she could avoid it.

I never wanted to avoid talking about Brexit. I had hoped that, as we've all known each other for some time, we'd be able to talk amicably about it, without the name calling that goes on else where.

However, I found that the constant reference to 'Romoaners', was something that made me feel very uncomfortable as I was in a minority. I did try to explain this about a year or so ago, but no one wanted to tone down the rhetoric, so this thread was created, so people could carry with the name calling and it didn't spill over into other areas of the board.

I've nearly left the board twice due to Brexit - but it's so important that I need to talk about it, with as many people as possible.

The good news is, the Brexit barbs just bounce off me now. I've also had to take an 'if you can't beat them join them attitude', so I've stopped moderating my language.

I'm sorry you are finding this thread offensive Mervyn - but it'll give you an insight in to what I was feeling last year.

Gill, I assume that I must fall into the offensive post school as I constantly use the "remoaner " epithet. However I use this in the same way that remain voters use "brexiteer", without any malice intended, but merely to characterise someone with the opposite view to mine, and certainly not to demean or annoy anyone.
I do recognise that you appear to have exceedingly strong worries about the resolution of the brexit debate, and you certainly do get exasperated that we brexiteers don't exhibit the same concerns. That's not to say that we are not worried about the outcome, we are but there is little we can do about it until we know the end result. But for myself I have no regrets for voting leave, faced with a rerun that you desire, I would still vote the same way.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I'm finding it increasingly offensive but more importantly pointless.

No one here actually knows anything, but has an unchangeable opinion which they then try to back up with a link to the "experts". You can take any opinion you want and find a link which backs you.

The earth is flat

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC7rXdy3dOinCLNpPjPkc8Kw

The moon landings were faked

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest ... dings-hoax

Etc.

Of course we all agree, or maybe we don't, that those people are bonkers?

But in this thread too many people are presenting links to confirm their view and insulting others who disagree. That is not why I set this thread up. It was to keep the spats out of the cruising threads. Not to escalate the insults.

The reality is we have experts on both sides giving their opinion and presenting it as fact. The one fact is they can't all be right. A second fact is we don't yet know which.

I'm horrified that people are even considering filling their cupboards with tinned peas based on scaremongering.

That is why I'm leaving this thread. This time for good.

[Kenmo1]

I'm horrified that people are even considering filling their cupboards with tinned peas based on scaremongering.

That is why I'm leaving this thread. This time for good.

I won't be filling cupboards with tinned peas. It will be Andrex toilet rolls. Can't bear the thought of going back to using cut up squares of newspaper or even Izal like we had to in the good old days.

Sorry, I'm being flippant but I think things have got so heavy on here that it will do us all good to take a step back until we have more concrete information instead of all these ifs and buts and then we will know what we have to deal with.

[barney]

The only way forward is a full and proper Brexit
A border between existing UK countries is inconceivable and will never be allowed under any circumstances. So Barnier is whistling in the wind with his 'back stop'.
I doubt it's even legal under UK law.

From a personal point of view, I'd be happy to drop NI onto the EU in a heartbeat, but the Unionists would never go for it and they form the majority.

So the solution is to just leave end of March 2019.
No transition period. (due notice has been given)
No Irish back stop. (they seem a bit obsessed with this)
No hard border on the UK side.(they can do what they want on the EU side. Maybe we can charge their trucks for accessing Europe by our road system, for free)
No forty billion bribe payment. ( as Boris said, they can go whistle. If anything they should be paying us for access to our market)

Then, and only then, begin talks with the EU about a trade agreement should they wish to talk about one.
The world will not end when we get up on the 1st April.
Goods will still move in.
Goods will still move out.
Commerce will continue.
Planes will fly.
People will go to work
Folk will go on holiday.

The whole thing is so over hyped.
How do folk think things ever get done in the hundreds of countries who are not part of the EU and never will be?

[Onelife]

Hi Sir Merv,

Sorry to hear you are leaving your thread but l have to say l haven't read anything that l would consider really offensive..It it were the case it would have been removed by the mods surely?

Regarding my stockpile of tinned potatoes etc.....We always buy in bulk so my shelves and freezers are always well stocked....l'm just a little pee'd having read about Maureen's toilet newspaper idea... l've just sent the wife out to get loads of toilet rolls....you never want to get caught short is my motto.

Regards

Keith

[Gill W]

Look. We sell stuff to Europe, they sell stuff to us. It make no economic sense for anyone to stop doing that once Brexit comes into play. If the scare monger remainers are so concerned, the ferry leaves in a couple of hours.

Nuff said.

The question being, is everything going to be in place in 7 short months time to allow that trade to continue unhindered

Gill, If there is an agreement then during the transitional period the status quo continues, so we have about 28 months to sort out a system for post brexit. However since all the system data currently exists, it should not be beyond the IT industry to clone the bits that stay the same and amend those that need altering, we just have to hope it's not P&O's IT engineers who do the work.

IF there's an agreement. If there's not an agreement, which is still looking rather likely, what happens then? Currently 7 months to go, and we simply don't know. in a no deal scenario. I can't see any way that day to day living won't be affected.

[Gill W]

Now I've got all that off my chest maybe it's time to retire from this thread again. I'm beginning to find the discussion as offensive as Gill did previously, which was why I set this thread up so she could avoid it.

I never wanted to avoid talking about Brexit. I had hoped that, as we've all known each other for some time, we'd be able to talk amicably about it, without the name calling that goes on else where.

However, I found that the constant reference to 'Romoaners', was something that made me feel very uncomfortable as I was in a minority. I did try to explain this about a year or so ago, but no one wanted to tone down the rhetoric, so this thread was created, so people could carry with the name calling and it didn't spill over into other areas of the board.

I've nearly left the board twice due to Brexit - but it's so important that I need to talk about it, with as many people as possible.

The good news is, the Brexit barbs just bounce off me now. I've also had to take an 'if you can't beat them join them attitude', so I've stopped moderating my language.

I'm sorry you are finding this thread offensive Mervyn - but it'll give you an insight in to what I was feeling last year.

Gill, I assume that I must fall into the offensive post school as I constantly use the "remoaner " epithet. However I use this in the same way that remain voters use "brexiteer", without any malice intended, but merely to characterise someone with the opposite view to mine, and certainly not to demean or annoy anyone.
I do recognise that you appear to have exceedingly strong worries about the resolution of the brexit debate, and you certainly do get exasperated that we brexiteers don't exhibit the same concerns. That's not to say that we are not worried about the outcome, we are but there is little we can do about it until we know the end result. But for myself I have no regrets for voting leave, faced with a rerun that you desire, I would still vote the same way.

I don't think Brexiteer is offensive, as it doesn't imply a negative characteristic like moaning.

Fortunately, I've gone beyond caring about what I'm called, as long as you don't mind me replying in kind if I feel it's appropriate.

I wouldn't say I'm exasperated by Brextremists, it's more disbelief that you all seem prepared to go over the cliff edge regardless, and some even seem to welcome the prospect of a no deal. ('bring it on', I've heard it said, although not necessarily on this forum). I'm glad you say you admit to worries, but, in my mind it makes the willingness to go over the cliff even more inexplicable.

EDITED to add, Barney has just confirmed my comment about being happy to go over the cliff edge.

[Gill W]

I'm horrified that people are even considering filling their cupboards with tinned peas based on scaremongering.

That is why I'm leaving this thread. This time for good.

I won't be filling cupboards with tinned peas. It will be Andrex toilet rolls. Can't bear the thought of going back to using cut up squares of newspaper or even Izal like we had to in the good old days.

Sorry, I'm being flippant but I think things have got so heavy on here that it will do us all good to take a step back until we have more concrete information instead of all these ifs and buts and then we will know what we have to deal with.

Hello, good to hear another voice on here. I can't help thinking that most forum members don't really want to get involved in this thread, as, like you say, it has got very heavy.

I haven't got a single tinned pea in my store cupboard, and have no intention of buying any. But I'm getting more of things that I normally buy, such as tinned tomatoes, various types of beans and pulses, lentils, pasta and rice, plus some tinned soups. Therefore if people suddenly panic buy food at the end of March (you never know how the public are going to react), at least I've got the basis of meals in the house. Either way, we will probably have quite a few veggie chillis and curries next year!

The trouble with loo rolls, they take up a lot of space. I'll have to store my loo roll stash in the loft!

Very good advice though, perhaps we all need to take a step back for a while.

[Onelife]

I know some of you have poo pooed my food stockpiling venture but what you don't know is that l'm doing it out of kindness for our small village community.
If things do go drastically wrong and the food chain breaks down l'll leave it a few weeks until the villagers start showing signs of weight loss then help them out with grossly inflated food parcels.

Bring it on l say

[Golden Princess]

Might I suggest that with all this talk along the lines of being happy to go over the cliff edge and "Bring it on", etc. that with the majority of us on this site possibly being on the older side of society we are going to leave this mess for the next few years, 5 years, 10 years or as has been said 50 years to our children, grandchildren, great grandchildren to cope with. While in the meantime making life extremely hard for them in the process (less employment regulations, less support should they unfortunately become unemployed, or heaven forbid a financial burden, less freedoms, less NHS, less choice, ........ the list goes on and on,- not to mention things as negative equity, inflation, lack of pension, .......... but I am sure you are fully aware.)

Might I also suggest that as members of a cruising group, the majority of us are in a position to provide short term help to our families as some have already stated (or in the case above to the small village community or if there are NO food shortages then donate your stockpiled food to the food banks). But others are just a financial burden. This is not the way a great country, or 'world leader' should conduct itself.

[Jack Staff]

Brexit means Brexit
Strong and stable
There should be no general election until 2020
Nothing has changed
There will be no second referendum on Brexit {Theresa May, 1 September}

We're going to have one, aren't we?

[screwy]

Only in your mind Jack

[Manoverboard]

Brexit means Brexit
Strong and stable
There should be no general election until 2020
Nothing has changed
There will be no second referendum on Brexit {Theresa May, 1 September}

We're going to have one, aren't we?

Half a story, Jack ?

The part you missed out was the reason why TM strongly believes that a second referendum is a non starter, I will summarise.

A large proportion of the 17,000,000 folk who voted to leave live in parts of the UK which are run down and this is due, they believe, to EU policies. Many of these voters haven't voted in decades but they did so on this occasion … it seems that they have voted for ' hope ' and entrusted TM with the task. She, as in TM, respects their wishes and will not be seen to let them down.

Well done TM , I hadn't thought of that aspect and nobody else on here has posted to suggest that they have either.

[Jack Staff]

Half a story, Jack ?

The part you missed out was the reason why TM strongly believes that a second referendum is a non starter, I will summarise.

A large proportion of the 17,000,000 folk who voted to leave live in parts of the UK which are run down and this is due, they believe, to EU policies. Many of these voters haven't voted in decades but they did so on this occasion … it seems that they have voted for ' hope ' and entrusted TM with the task. She, as in TM, respects their wishes and will not be seen to let them down.

Well done TM , I hadn't thought of that aspect and nobody else on here has posted to suggest that they have either.

It will be a vote on the future not the past. So not a second referendum, not voting again.
Spot on that they believed their problems were due to the EU. Many now realise they have been duped and there is no longer any 'hope' in our present course. Their problems being caused by British government (mainly Conservative austerity but not exclusively as this has been going on for decades).
"Will not be seen to let them down" sounds like she is not expecting to survive conference!

[Stephen]

Brexit: May vows no compromise with EU on Brexit plan http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45385421

[Jack Staff]

Brexit: May vows no compromise with EU on Brexit plan http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45385421

Yeah, and did you read the whole article? That's saved me a lot of typing!

[towny44]

Jack have you read the latest polls, 94% of leavers have not changed their minds, and 95% of remainers have not changed, so any new vote is very likely to produce the same result.
Which is one reason why I do not fear another vote, but I still believe it would set a dangerous precedent and I do not believe any major party would want to open that particular can of worms.

[Jack Staff]

Jack have you read the latest polls, 94% of leavers have not changed their minds, and 95% of remainers have not changed, so any new vote is very likely to produce the same result.
Which is one reason why I do not fear another vote, but I still believe it would set a dangerous precedent and I do not believe any major party would want to open that particular can of worms.

No I haven't read those polls (so a link would be helpful).
But you are forgetting those figures are based on 2016 voters.
Many people have since passed away, predominately leave voters, to be replaced by many teenagers, predominately remain voters.
You only need a change of about 600,000 to reverse the vote. I believe this point has already been reached.
The original vote ignored the million plus British in Europe, a mistake that should be corrected next time as they are most affected (and British!).
But most of all you are ignoring the 13,000,000 lazy idiots who didn't vote last time because they did not know who to believe.

I do not know if another vote will produce the same result. Why don't we have one and find out?

[johnds]

Jack have you read the latest polls, 94% of leavers have not changed their minds, and 95% of remainers have not changed, so any new vote is very likely to produce the same result.
Which is one reason why I do not fear another vote, but I still believe it would set a dangerous precedent and I do not believe any major party would want to open that particular can of worms.

No I haven't read those polls (so a link would be helpful).
But you are forgetting those figures are based on 2016 voters.
Many people have since passed away, predominately leave voters, to be replaced by many teenagers, predominately remain voters.
You only need a change of about 600,000 to reverse the vote. I believe this point has already been reached.
The original vote ignored the million plus British in Europe, a mistake that should be corrected next time as they are most affected (and British!).
But most of all you are ignoring the 13,000,000 lazy idiots who didn't vote last time because they did not know who to believe.

I do not know if another vote will produce the same result. Why don't we have one and find out?

What then Jack

Best of three

[Jack Staff]

What then Jack

Best of three

“If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy.” - David Davis, 19 November 2012

[barney]

Democracy hasn't changed it's mind, it's just that a small minority refuse to accept the result.

Just say that there was another vote on the subject.
What would that achieve?
The result would no doubt be close, either way and would be condemed by the losing side.
Personally, I think the decision would be pretty much the same.

The 13 million 'lazy idiots' as you so wonderfully put it probably didn't vote previously because they don't care either way, so there is no eveidence that they would if there was another vote.
I may be hard to comprehend, but there are millions have absoloutely no interest in politics.

A good friend of mine has a building company.
He has fourteen staff on the books of variuous ages.
He was/is a very firm remainer for his own personal reasons (not business)
When the result was announced, he was quite upset with the decision.
He was more upset to find that all of his older staff voted to leave, and none of his younger staff bothered to vote at all.
He asked them why they hadn't voted and they told him the truth, as they see it.
They are just not interested.
They didn't care which party was in power or that we were in or out of the EU.
That is probably reflected in the 13 million who didn't bother.


Question Jack !
IF there was another vote and the result was the same, would you accept it?
It's just that when Anna Soubry was asked if May could bring back any deal that she could vote for in Parliament, she was honest and said No, there was nothing that she could agree with except staying in the EU.
That is from an alleged democrat.
So, what the 300,000 odd thousand people who are calling for another vote really mean is another vote as long as it goes their way.

How about a bit of Parliamentary democracy? It's worked for years.
We have a general election when it's due and you can legitimately vote for whatever party floats your boat.
That might work.
If what you think is correct, then the LibDems and Greens will walk it …………………………… and I will accept the result.