Brexit

[barney]

To the best of my knowledge Ray, there is no hard border.
You just drive across.
The difference being England/Scotland you remain in the UK.
NI/ Ireland, you are entering a foreign country. That is different government, different money, different laws and so on.

Before Ireland and the UK joined the EU, we had what was known as a common travel area.
I'm sure that you remember that.
Even Irish footballers were considered 'not foreign' and therefore did not need work permits etc.
Workers from Ireland happily worked here without the need to additional documentation.
But I'm sure that you know all of this already.

After Brexit, all of this will continue unless the EU decide to throw up a physiclal border to make apolitical point.
I can honestly see them hanging Ireland out to dry to preserve their four freedoms.
Varadker may have made the wrong call.

[Jack Staff]

To the best of my knowledge Ray, there is no hard border.
You just drive across.
The difference being England/Scotland you remain in the UK.
NI/ Ireland, you are entering a foreign country. That is different government, different money, different laws and so on.

In NI you are still in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Our country, the name that appears on your passport (I assume, perhaps you are not British?).
NI is no more foreign than Scotland with Hollyrood (remember Nicola Sturgeon?), have you never had a Scottish note? Scottish law is different to England too.

Before Ireland and the UK joined the EU, we had what was known as a common travel area.
I'm sure that you remember that.
Even Irish footballers were considered 'not foreign' and therefore did not need work permits etc.
Workers from Ireland happily worked here without the need to additional documentation.
But I'm sure that you know all of this already.

After Brexit, all of this will continue unless the EU decide to throw up a physiclal border to make apolitical point.
I can honestly see them hanging Ireland out to dry to preserve their four freedoms.
Varadker may have made the wrong call.

Wrong. After Brexit, WE have to have a hard border to trade under WTO. It is a pre-requisite.
We can't have a hard border because Parliament have legislated against it. We also can't have a hard border because of the GFA.
The EU will not let England bully Ireland into anything, not that Ireland isn't capable of standing up to the English on there own.

[Ray Scully]

To the best of my knowledge Ray, there is no hard border.
You just drive across.
The difference being England/Scotland you remain in the UK.
NI/ Ireland, you are entering a foreign country. That is different government, different money, different laws and so on.

In NI you are still in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Our country, the name that appears on your passport (I assume, perhaps you are not British?).
NI is no more foreign than Scotland with Hollyrood (remember Nicola Sturgeon?), have you never had a Scottish note? Scottish law is different to England too.

Before Ireland and the UK joined the EU, we had what was known as a common travel area.
I'm sure that you remember that.
Even Irish footballers were considered 'not foreign' and therefore did not need work permits etc.
Workers from Ireland happily worked here without the need to additional documentation.
But I'm sure that you know all of this already.

After Brexit, all of this will continue unless the EU decide to throw up a physiclal border to make apolitical point.
I can honestly see them hanging Ireland out to dry to preserve their four freedoms.
Varadker may have made the wrong call.

Wrong. After Brexit, WE have to have a hard border to trade under WTO. It is a pre-requisite.
We can't have a hard border because Parliament have legislated against it. We also can't have a hard border because of the GFA.
The EU will not let England bully Ireland into anything, not that Ireland isn't capable of standing up to the English on there own.

What a pity that this was not all properly discussed before the referendum. As I understand it, no hard borders would be a backdoor entry into the UK for all and sundry.

[Jack Staff]

To the best of my knowledge Ray, there is no hard border.
You just drive across.
The difference being England/Scotland you remain in the UK.
NI/ Ireland, you are entering a foreign country. That is different government, different money, different laws and so on.

In NI you are still in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Our country, the name that appears on your passport (I assume, perhaps you are not British?).
NI is no more foreign than Scotland with Hollyrood (remember Nicola Sturgeon?), have you never had a Scottish note? Scottish law is different to England too.

Oooops, sorry Barney. Didn't understand what you were trying to say at first.

But England Scotland are in a free trade area (at present) namely the UK.
NI Ireland are also in a FTA namely the EU. If we want to leave, it is our responsibility to sort it out.
We knew the rules before we started this debacle.

[Jack Staff]

What a pity that this was not all properly discussed before the referendum. As I understand it, no hard borders would be a backdoor entry into the UK for all and sundry.

It was discussed. "We want to take back control of our borders!"

[barney]

To the best of my knowledge Ray, there is no hard border.
You just drive across.
The difference being England/Scotland you remain in the UK.
NI/ Ireland, you are entering a foreign country. That is different government, different money, different laws and so on.

In NI you are still in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Our country, the name that appears on your passport (I assume, perhaps you are not British?).
NI is no more foreign than Scotland with Hollyrood (remember Nicola Sturgeon?), have you never had a Scottish note? Scottish law is different to England too.

Before Ireland and the UK joined the EU, we had what was known as a common travel area.
I'm sure that you remember that.
Even Irish footballers were considered 'not foreign' and therefore did not need work permits etc.
Workers from Ireland happily worked here without the need to additional documentation.
But I'm sure that you know all of this already.

After Brexit, all of this will continue unless the EU decide to throw up a physiclal border to make apolitical point.
I can honestly see them hanging Ireland out to dry to preserve their four freedoms.
Varadker may have made the wrong call.

Wrong. After Brexit, WE have to have a hard border to trade under WTO. It is a pre-requisite.
We can't have a hard border because Parliament have legislated against it. We also can't have a hard border because of the GFA.
The EU will not let England bully Ireland into anything, not that Ireland isn't capable of standing up to the English on there own.

What a pity that this was not all properly discussed before the referendum. As I understand it, no hard borders would be a backdoor entry into the UK for all and sundry.

I still think that you are mssing the point Ray, unless of course I am !

The point of Brexit was not to absolutely control who comes into the country, just who has the right to settle and work and claim benefits.

When I was a younster in the late seventies, I travelled all over Europe and parts of Asia.
I even worked in a kibbutz for a time in Jaffa.
My memory is that I travelled quite freely.
It was even in the days before the Spain/Gibraltar border was open and we had to go to Ceuta in north Africa and then back across.
However, when I wanted to work in Spain, which I did for three years, (hence my appalling Spanish) I had to register and apply for a work permit, which I got.
I don't recall it being too labourious.

If any EU national thought it was worth sneaking in via Ireland, they would be wasting their time, because they could just rock up at Dover or Gatwick and come in.

I can't for the life of me understand why remainers always want to take everything to the extreme in discussions.
Apparently, after March next year, we will be doing zero trade with the EU 27.
Does any one really believe that?

[barney]

To the best of my knowledge Ray, there is no hard border.
You just drive across.
The difference being England/Scotland you remain in the UK.
NI/ Ireland, you are entering a foreign country. That is different government, different money, different laws and so on.

In NI you are still in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Our country, the name that appears on your passport (I assume, perhaps you are not British?).
NI is no more foreign than Scotland with Hollyrood (remember Nicola Sturgeon?), have you never had a Scottish note? Scottish law is different to England too.

Oooops, sorry Barney. Didn't understand what you were trying to say at first.

But England Scotland are in a free trade area (at present) namely the UK.
NI Ireland are also in a FTA namely the EU. If we want to leave, it is our responsibility to sort it out.
We knew the rules before we started this debacle.

If you genuinely think that the United Kindom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is no more that a free trade area, then I give up.

And it is all parties responsibility to sort out the Irish border.
If not, Ireland will be massively affected after only just coming through the last recession.
They know, the EU, know it and the UK know it.
So, time to be a bit more grown up.
https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2017/050 ... tral-bank/

[towny44]

Sterling has suddenly strengthened, presumably the currency market makers are betting on a positive Brexit result.

[Ray Scully]

If any EU national thought it was worth sneaking in via Ireland, they would be wasting their time, because they could just rock up at Dover or Gatwick and come in. Explicame por favour

I don't think the major problem will be EU nationals, it will be the illegals currently camped up in Calais. The Irish Government is not going to be too proactive given that they are only 'passing through' and as for the situation in France holding up when we exit the EU. Well!!

I can't for the life of me understand why remainers always want to take everything to the extreme in discussions.
Apparently, after March next year, we will be doing zero trade with the EU 27. Does anyone believe that


Well, you can be forgiven for being sceptical or not believing anything, given all the lies peddled during this campaign.

[oldbluefox]

Thankfully we didn't believe them then and we don't believe them now no matter how much scaremongering the Remainers dream up.

[Jack Staff]

The point of Brexit was not to absolutely control who comes into the country, just who has the right to settle and work and claim benefits.

For me to settle in the EU, I would need to prove that either:
1) I had a job to go to
or
2) I was of independent means (cash in bank/health insurance...), so no benefits.

This is how it is in the EU, though it does vary from state to state.

It is due to our Home Secretary (Trezza) that this was never implemented in the UK. Unfortunately the EU never forced us to, because they don't do that kind of thing.

[Jack Staff]

Sterling has suddenly strengthened, presumably the currency market makers are betting on a positive Brexit result.

Yes, we're staying in the CU.

[Stephen]

Sterling has suddenly strengthened, presumably the currency market makers are betting on a positive Brexit result.

Yes, we're staying in the CU.

Didn't even know we were members

[barney]

I'll do my best to explain Ray.

Our PM has said that she doesn't envisage any situation where EU nationals would need visas to enter the UK, as tourists or on business.
That is her current stance and is hoping that the EU reciprocate, but that is up to them.
She has said openly and many times that anyone here now can happily stay and get the exact same rights as any UK resident.
She is hoping that the EU reciprocate.
She has said openly that the UK will not block EU planes landing after Brexit.
She is hoping that the EU will reciprocate.
She has said that she would like total co-operation on the gallileo project as nearly all the work has been done in the UK, with UK scientists and the majority financial contributor has been the UK
She is hoping that the EU will reciprocate.

The UK is leaving and it's our decision, but we are bending over backwards to placate the EU with little coming the other way.
When/ if the UK does, 'crash out' as Jack likes to put it, nobody can deny that the EU side have played a major part in that.

As Raab said the other week
'Computer says no' doesn't cut it theses days.

Regarding Calais illegal migrants, if they get as far as Ireland, they will love it and stay there

Le Touquet agreement is bi-lateral and nothing to do with the EU by the way.
Macron said that this is the first thing he'd rip up if he gained power.
Still waiting Manu !
He's now concentrating on home affairs after losing his seventh senior official since taking power and a 19% personal rating.
As I've always said, the best job in politics is not being in power.
You can rant on all day about what you would do without actually having to do it.
Then you win ...........

[Jack Staff]

Sterling has suddenly strengthened, presumably the currency market makers are betting on a positive Brexit result.

Yes, we're staying in the CU.

Didn't even know we were members

If you didn't know we were in the Customs Union, well...

[Stephen]

Fair comment

[Jack Staff]

Sterling has suddenly strengthened, presumably the currency market makers are betting on a positive Brexit result.

"Britain would get its way in having all of the United Kingdom - rather than just Northern Ireland - stay in a customs union with the bloc if the “backstop” is triggered. "
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-brita ... KKCN1MF0K9

Still a long way to go, but you can see which way the wind is blowing.

[Ray Scully]

Thankfully we didn't believe them then and we don't believe them now no matter how much scaremongering the Remainers dream up.

Sadly many believed the mendacities promulgated by the Leave campaign. But hey it is for many no longer about what is best for the UK, its all down to their team winning

[oldbluefox]

Personally I have heard so much c**p coming from the Remainers who, in their arrogance have labelled Leavers as racist, xenophobic, little Englanders, stupid, incompetent, misled, didn't know what they were voting for, ignorant etc and the referendum as advisory, illegal, undemocratic etc that it will be a nice little bonus when 'our team wins'.

[towny44]

The point of Brexit was not to absolutely control who comes into the country, just who has the right to settle and work and claim benefits.

For me to settle in the EU, I would need to prove that either:
1) I had a job to go to
or
2) I was of independent means (cash in bank/health insurance...), so no benefits.

This is how it is in the EU, though it does vary from state to state.

It is due to our Home Secretary (Trezza) that this was never implemented in the UK. Unfortunately the EU never forced us to, because they don't do that kind of thing.

Jack, are 1 and 2 the current situation or post brexit? Because that certainly is not freedom of movement.

[towny44]

Thankfully we didn't believe them then and we don't believe them now no matter how much scaremongering the Remainers dream up.

Sadly many believed the mendacities promulgated by the Leave campaign. But hey it is for many no longer about what is best for the UK, its all down to their team winning

Jack, I accept that I know more about the EU, and the leaving thereof, than I did at the time of the referendum, but strangely enough nothing I have learned would change the way I would have voted then, or in any future referendum. Rather the reverse in fact, I think I am now more likely to vote leave.

[Ray Scully]

Personally I have heard so much c**p coming from the Remainers who, in their arrogance have labelled Leavers as racist, xenophobic, little Englanders, stupid, incompetent, misled, didn't know what they were voting for, ignorant etc and the referendum as advisory, illegal, undemocratic etc that it will be a nice little bonus when 'our team wins'.

The Peoples vote will determine the winning team OBF. As for the characteristics you ascribe to we Remainers, many such unpleasantries have also been applied by Levers to Remainers.

[Jack Staff]

The point of Brexit was not to absolutely control who comes into the country, just who has the right to settle and work and claim benefits.

For me to settle in the EU, I would need to prove that either:
1) I had a job to go to
or
2) I was of independent means (cash in bank/health insurance...), so no benefits.

This is how it is in the EU, though it does vary from state to state.

It is due to our Home Secretary (Trezza) that this was never implemented in the UK. Unfortunately the EU never forced us to, because they don't do that kind of thing.

Jack, are 1 and 2 the current situation or post brexit? Because that certainly is not freedom of movement.

Current, in most EU countries.
I have the right of freedom of movement if I have a job to go to, or can support myself. It's just that the UK government have not implemented it here.

[towny44]

The point of Brexit was not to absolutely control who comes into the country, just who has the right to settle and work and claim benefits.

For me to settle in the EU, I would need to prove that either:
1) I had a job to go to
or
2) I was of independent means (cash in bank/health insurance...), so no benefits.

This is how it is in the EU, though it does vary from state to state.

It is due to our Home Secretary (Trezza) that this was never implemented in the UK. Unfortunately the EU never forced us to, because they don't do that kind of thing.

Jack, are 1 and 2 the current situation or post brexit? Because that certainly is not freedom of movement.

Current, in most EU countries.
I have the right of freedom of movement if I have a job to go to, or can support myself. It's just that the UK government have not implemented it here.

Jack, you might want to bone up on EU rules since you seem to have misleading info. Now if this is coming from one of your many friends in the remain "underground" then you might want to check out some of your other claims, in case they are feeding you a crock of s**t.

Any national of a Member State has the right to seek employment in another Member State in conformity with the relevant regulations applicable to national workers. He or she is entitled to receive the same assistance from the national employment office as nationals of the host Member State, without any discrimination on grounds of nationality, and also has the right to stay in the host country for a period long enough to look for work, apply for a job and be recruited. This right applies equally to all workers from other Member States, whether they are on permanent contracts, are employed as seasonal or cross-border workers or provide services. Workers may not be discriminated against, for example with regard to language requirements, which may not go beyond what is reasonable and necessary for the job in question.

[Jack Staff]

For me to settle in the EU, I would need to prove that either:
1) I had a job to go to
or
2) I was of independent means (cash in bank/health insurance...), so no benefits.

This is how it is in the EU, though it does vary from state to state.

It is due to our Home Secretary (Trezza) that this was never implemented in the UK. Unfortunately the EU never forced us to, because they don't do that kind of thing.

Jack, are 1 and 2 the current situation or post brexit? Because that certainly is not freedom of movement.

Current, in most EU countries.
I have the right of freedom of movement if I have a job to go to, or can support myself. It's just that the UK government have not implemented it here.

Jack, you might want to bone up on EU rules since you seem to have misleading info. Now if this is coming from one of your many friends in the remain "underground" then you might want to check out some of your other claims, in case they are feeding you a crock of s**t.

Any national of a Member State has the right to seek employment in another Member State in conformity with the relevant regulations applicable to national workers. He or she is entitled to receive the same assistance from the national employment office as nationals of the host Member State, without any discrimination on grounds of nationality, and also has the right to stay in the host country for a period long enough to look for work, apply for a job and be recruited. This right applies equally to all workers from other Member States, whether they are on permanent contracts, are employed as seasonal or cross-border workers or provide services. Workers may not be discriminated against, for example with regard to language requirements, which may not go beyond what is reasonable and necessary for the job in question.

Does that say I can settle in a country without a job or being self sufficient? No.
Does that say I can claim benefits? No.

I would suggest it is not me who has been misinformed with misleading info.