Brexit

[towny44]

Jack, are 1 and 2 the current situation or post brexit? Because that certainly is not freedom of movement.

Current, in most EU countries.
I have the right of freedom of movement if I have a job to go to, or can support myself. It's just that the UK government have not implemented it here.

Jack, you might want to bone up on EU rules since you seem to have misleading info. Now if this is coming from one of your many friends in the remain "underground" then you might want to check out some of your other claims, in case they are feeding you a crock of s**t.

Any national of a Member State has the right to seek employment in another Member State in conformity with the relevant regulations applicable to national workers. He or she is entitled to receive the same assistance from the national employment office as nationals of the host Member State, without any discrimination on grounds of nationality, and also has the right to stay in the host country for a period long enough to look for work, apply for a job and be recruited. This right applies equally to all workers from other Member States, whether they are on permanent contracts, are employed as seasonal or cross-border workers or provide services. Workers may not be discriminated against, for example with regard to language requirements, which may not go beyond what is reasonable and necessary for the job in question.

Does that say I can settle in a country without a job or being self sufficient? No.
Does that say I can claim benefits? No.

I would suggest it is not me who has been misinformed with misleading info.

It says you can stay until you find a job, which if you need to rely on us for references might be many years.

[Jack Staff]

Current, in most EU countries.
I have the right of freedom of movement if I have a job to go to, or can support myself. It's just that the UK government have not implemented it here.

Jack, you might want to bone up on EU rules since you seem to have misleading info. Now if this is coming from one of your many friends in the remain "underground" then you might want to check out some of your other claims, in case they are feeding you a crock of s**t.

Any national of a Member State has the right to seek employment in another Member State in conformity with the relevant regulations applicable to national workers. He or she is entitled to receive the same assistance from the national employment office as nationals of the host Member State, without any discrimination on grounds of nationality, and also has the right to stay in the host country for a period long enough to look for work, apply for a job and be recruited. This right applies equally to all workers from other Member States, whether they are on permanent contracts, are employed as seasonal or cross-border workers or provide services. Workers may not be discriminated against, for example with regard to language requirements, which may not go beyond what is reasonable and necessary for the job in question.

Does that say I can settle in a country without a job or being self sufficient? No.
Does that say I can claim benefits? No.

I would suggest it is not me who has been misinformed with misleading info.

It says you can stay until you find a job, which if you need to rely on us for references might be many years.

No, it does not say until.
It says "for a period long enough to look for work, apply for a job and be recruited".
That period is up to the country in question.
Teresa May did not bother.

[oldbluefox]

until
ənˈtɪl/
preposition & conjunction
up to (the point in time or the event mentioned).

Is that not one and the same Jack?

[towny44]

Jack, you might want to bone up on EU rules since you seem to have misleading info. Now if this is coming from one of your many friends in the remain "underground" then you might want to check out some of your other claims, in case they are feeding you a crock of s**t.

Any national of a Member State has the right to seek employment in another Member State in conformity with the relevant regulations applicable to national workers. He or she is entitled to receive the same assistance from the national employment office as nationals of the host Member State, without any discrimination on grounds of nationality, and also has the right to stay in the host country for a period long enough to look for work, apply for a job and be recruited. This right applies equally to all workers from other Member States, whether they are on permanent contracts, are employed as seasonal or cross-border workers or provide services. Workers may not be discriminated against, for example with regard to language requirements, which may not go beyond what is reasonable and necessary for the job in question.

Does that say I can settle in a country without a job or being self sufficient? No.
Does that say I can claim benefits? No.

I would suggest it is not me who has been misinformed with misleading info.

It says you can stay until you find a job, which if you need to rely on us for references might be many years.

No, it does not say until.
It says "for a period long enough to look for work, apply for a job and be recruited".
That period is up to the country in question.
Teresa May did not bother.

Perhaps so Jack, but I tend to find your views far more bothersome.

[Jack Staff]

until
ənˈtɪl/
preposition & conjunction
up to (the point in time or the event mentioned).

Is that not one and the same Jack?

No.

I do not have the right to stay in an EU country until I find a job.

I do have the right to go and find a job in a EU country for a period of time (usually three months, I believe. Up to the country in question). I can not claim benefits.

Not the same thing at all.
However, none of this has been implemented by the British government. That is not the fault of the EU.

[Jack Staff]

Does that say I can settle in a country without a job or being self sufficient? No.
Does that say I can claim benefits? No.

I would suggest it is not me who has been misinformed with misleading info.

It says you can stay until you find a job, which if you need to rely on us for references might be many years.

No, it does not say until.
It says "for a period long enough to look for work, apply for a job and be recruited".
That period is up to the country in question.
Teresa May did not bother.

Perhaps so Jack, but I tend to find your views far more bothersome.

I find it bothersome that it is me that gets to explain how you have been lied to.

[towny44]

It says you can stay until you find a job, which if you need to rely on us for references might be many years.

No, it does not say until.
It says "for a period long enough to look for work, apply for a job and be recruited".
That period is up to the country in question.
Teresa May did not bother.

Perhaps so Jack, but I tend to find your views far more bothersome.

I find it bothersome that it is me that gets to explain how you have been lied to.

Jack check out post 2246 for my comments about the quality of the information given out during the referendum campaign, and whether this influenced me, and I suspect most others, in how we voted and would still vote.
However much of this is due to the fact that we are the first country to implement article 50 and neither side had anything to refer back to and both negotiating teams have been learning on the job. The remain campaign was mainly about the dire consequences that leaving would have on the economy, there was nothing about the nitty gritty detail and no mention of the Irish border problem. So only accusing the leave campaign of lying and not revealing the true extent of the problems that leaving would create is a bit much.
Anyway back to issue of freedom to job hunt, I would assume that, just like changing jobs in the UK, most people would seek out a job first and secure it via an interview process before making such a significant career change, and I assume that this route will still be available to anyone wanting to move to the EU, which makes your persistent carping a little pointless.

[Manoverboard]

It seems that an agreement will / could / should ( delete as applicable ) be reached during the next ten days …. and then we can all look forward to Jack telling us where they went wrong

[oldbluefox]

Lies like reports that because of Brexit Unilever were moving their HQ out of London to Rotterdam? Another Project Panic failure to add to a long list.

[oldbluefox]

It seems that an agreement will / could / should ( delete as applicable ) be reached during the next ten days …. and then we can all look forward to Jack telling us where they went wrong

...... or trot out that it is only advisory/undemocratic/illegal/not fair.

[Ray Scully]

Lies like reports that because of Brexit Unilever were moving their HQ out of London to Rotterdam? Another Project Panic failure to add to a long list.

along with sunny uplands and the NHS red bus, oh and Dr Fox's easiest trade deal in history

[Jack Staff]

No, it does not say until.
It says "for a period long enough to look for work, apply for a job and be recruited".
That period is up to the country in question.
Teresa May did not bother.

Perhaps so Jack, but I tend to find your views far more bothersome.

I find it bothersome that it is me that gets to explain how you have been lied to.

Jack check out post 2246 for my comments about the quality of the information given out during the referendum campaign, and whether this influenced me, and I suspect most others, in how we voted and would still vote.
However much of this is due to the fact that we are the first country to implement article 50 and neither side had anything to refer back to and both negotiating teams have been learning on the job. The remain campaign was mainly about the dire consequences that leaving would have on the economy, there was nothing about the nitty gritty detail and no mention of the Irish border problem. So only accusing the leave campaign of lying and not revealing the true extent of the problems that leaving would create is a bit much.
Anyway back to issue of freedom to job hunt, I would assume that, just like changing jobs in the UK, most people would seek out a job first and secure it via an interview process before making such a significant career change, and I assume that this route will still be available to anyone wanting to move to the EU, which makes your persistent carping a little pointless.

While my actions might cause you to be more entrenched in your views, I could no forgive myself for not doing anything I could to stop my country's decline. Of course three years ago we could not see where we would be today. I actually thought the fault line would be Scotland back then.

Anyway, back to the job hunt - Today I have the right to go to the mainland and look for work. I can stay for 3 months, if I have not found a job in that time I either have to leave or prove I have enough dosh not to be a burden on the country, otherwise I can not stay.

Assuming we leave (no deal) I will become like (say) an Australian. At the EU border I will be asked why I am entering and told that I must not work or seek work, after 3 months I must leave. Your assumption is wrong. I will have had my rights and freedoms removed, hence my persistent carping.

{I have generalised, because each EU country has it's own rules, decided on by their own governments. The British government decided not to implement any of the rules available to them for EU immigration. They lied when they said they could not control it.}

[Jack Staff]

It seems that an agreement will / could / should ( delete as applicable ) be reached during the next ten days …. and then we can all look forward to Jack telling us where they went wrong

I can tell you now if you'd like.

[Jack Staff]

Lies like reports that because of Brexit Unilever were moving their HQ out of London to Rotterdam? Another Project Panic failure to add to a long list.

It was not a lie. Unilever, the company still wants to go. It was the UK shareholders that have stopped them.

[Ray Scully]

Discussion in the pub last night regarding the two major factors in determining peoples vote/views in the Referendum. Not surprisingly facts and prejudice were adjudged as the main drivers

[towny44]

Lies like reports that because of Brexit Unilever were moving their HQ out of London to Rotterdam? Another Project Panic failure to add to a long list.

It was not a lie. Unilever, the company still wants to go. It was the UK shareholders that have stopped them.

But it has nothing to do with brexit, so to claim otherwise is a lie.

PS Referring back to the thread on freedom of movement, just like a politician you answer a question you prefer, rather than the one I asked.

[Jack Staff]

Lies like reports that because of Brexit Unilever were moving their HQ out of London to Rotterdam? Another Project Panic failure to add to a long list.

It was not a lie. Unilever, the company still wants to go. It was the UK shareholders that have stopped them.

But it has nothing to do with brexit, so to claim otherwise is a lie.

PS Referring back to the thread on freedom of movement, just like a politician you answer a question you prefer, rather than the one I asked.

I did not even mention Brexit. Just that it was the UK shareholders that stopped them going.

On FOM, sorry John, please state the question again and I will do my best to answer it specifically. My confusion comes from me not seeing a question mark.

[barney]

08/02/2016

And they say the Brexiteers told lies

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-08/prim ... t-england/

By the way, I asked my Sis in Law about the benefit issue and she said that there were approx. 140K EU nationals claiming and getting benefits in 2016.
Official DWP.
The law changed for people who came in after 2014.

[Jack Staff]

08/02/2016

And they say the Brexiteers told lies

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-08/prim ... t-england/

By the way, I asked my Sis in Law about the benefit issue and she said that there were approx. 140K EU nationals claiming and getting benefits in 2016.
Official DWP.
The law changed for people who came in after 2014.

I agree with Danny Dyer.

[screwy]

Whose Danny Dyer.? Anyway, i shall leave you to argue among yourselves for 2 weeks, it's the Jolly Ventura for me on Monday, stopping in Cirencester tonight. Play nicely Boys and Girls.

[Ray Scully]

Whose Danny Dyer.? Anyway, i shall leave you to argue among yourselves for 2 weeks, it's the Jolly Ventura for me on Monday, stopping in Cirencester tonight. Play nicely Boys and Girls.

Enjoy your cruise,

[Jack Staff]

Whose Danny Dyer.? Anyway, i shall leave you to argue among yourselves for 2 weeks, it's the Jolly Ventura for me on Monday, stopping in Cirencester tonight. Play nicely Boys and Girls.

Have a great time.
This is Danny Dyers' now famous quote on Cameron. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W77154J0-w

[barney]

What strange bedfellows Remainers are

[Stephen]

Whose Danny Dyer.? Anyway, i shall leave you to argue among yourselves for 2 weeks, it's the Jolly Ventura for me on Monday, stopping in Cirencester tonight. Play nicely Boys and Girls.

Have a great time.
This is Danny Dyers' now famous quote on Cameron. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W77154J0-w

love it.

[barney]

Unfortunately it all my be going better than some hoped if the pro EU Politico is to be believed

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit- ... -progress/

And then we have the pro EU Guardian, buried deep in the paper.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... apanese-pm


So, we will probably end up with an FTA plus be able to do our own deals.

It seems that the only major sticking point is Ireland.
Will May allow the annexation of Northern Ireland in exchage for an FTA ?
Will the EU compromise it's 'principals' in return for £39 billion in bribe money ?
Will they come up with some vaguely worded fudgy compromise so that all can save face ?
Most likely.

Donald Tusk was saying over the weekend that he had hoped that he could reverse Brexit but has now come to the conclusion that it will happen so a deal must be done.
Nice that they thought they could reverse a democratic decision but then i suppose that tactic has worked in the past with Denmark & Ireland.

It seems weird that they are happy to interfere in some processes like Hungary & Poland but had nothing to say when Spanish police were besting on grannies in Catalonia.