Brexit

[barney]

****EARLY BREXIT BONUS****

The Uber hypocrtite Nick Clegg is leaving the country to take a a job with …… Facebook.

Yep, that is the very same Facebook that he has been slagging off for a number of years for not paying the correct income tax.

A million dollar salary apparently, and just a few short weeks ago from saying in an interview that he would never give up trying to keep the UK in the European Union.
So, ex MEP Clegg is giving up on his dream of a federal Europe for a handful of shiny stuff.

I wonder if he can find a position for Chukka Umuna

Barney, just maybe he can make more of an impact on the FB culture from the inside. I don't know, but I won't judge the situation without having the facts.

You make I larf Ray

A principled politician is as rare as hens teeth.

I expect his quasi communist wife will be going with him and his children will attend a nice private school.

Maybe all of his lobbying in the EU was not under the pretence of Brexit but really establishing contacts for his new job.

Nice work if you can get it

'Call me Dave ' is sitting on a beach in the south of France with his 'totters up' and writing his memoirs.
Gideon Osborn is the editor of The Evening standard as well as six other paid directorships.

Noses in the trough !

[Ray Scully]

****EARLY BREXIT BONUS****

The Uber hypocrtite Nick Clegg is leaving the country to take a a job with …… Facebook.

Yep, that is the very same Facebook that he has been slagging off for a number of years for not paying the correct income tax.

A million dollar salary apparently, and just a few short weeks ago from saying in an interview that he would never give up trying to keep the UK in the European Union.
So, ex MEP Clegg is giving up on his dream of a federal Europe for a handful of shiny stuff.

I wonder if he can find a position for Chukka Umuna

Barney, just maybe he can make more of an impact on the FB culture from the inside. I don't know, but I won't judge the situation without having the facts.

You make I larf Ray

A principled politician is as rare as hens teeth.

I expect his quasi communist wife will be going with him and his children will attend a nice private school.

Maybe all of his lobbying in the EU was not under the pretence of Brexit but really establishing contacts for his new job.

Nice work if you can get it

'Call me Dave ' is sitting on a beach in the south of France with his 'totters up' and writing his memoirs.
Gideon Osborn is the editor of The Evening standard as well as six other paid directorships.

Noses in the trough !

Barney
All the more reason for not trusting the politicians and big corporate and newspaper owners to determine the Brexit outcome.

[barney]

****EARLY BREXIT BONUS****

The Uber hypocrtite Nick Clegg is leaving the country to take a a job with …… Facebook.

Yep, that is the very same Facebook that he has been slagging off for a number of years for not paying the correct income tax.

A million dollar salary apparently, and just a few short weeks ago from saying in an interview that he would never give up trying to keep the UK in the European Union.
So, ex MEP Clegg is giving up on his dream of a federal Europe for a handful of shiny stuff.

I wonder if he can find a position for Chukka Umuna

Barney, just maybe he can make more of an impact on the FB culture from the inside. I don't know, but I won't judge the situation without having the facts.

You make I larf Ray

A principled politician is as rare as hens teeth.

I expect his quasi communist wife will be going with him and his children will attend a nice private school.

Maybe all of his lobbying in the EU was not under the pretence of Brexit but really establishing contacts for his new job.

Nice work if you can get it

'Call me Dave ' is sitting on a beach in the south of France with his 'totters up' and writing his memoirs.
Gideon Osborn is the editor of The Evening standard as well as six other paid directorships.

Noses in the trough !

Barney
All the more reason for not trusting the politicians and big corporate and newspaper owners to determine the Brexit outcome.

Or the multi billionaire George Soros
The Hungarian speculator who lives in the USA has chucked millions into the Stop Brexit campaign.
An inconvenient truth !

[Ray Scully]

Barney, just maybe he can make more of an impact on the FB culture from the inside. I don't know, but I won't judge the situation without having the facts.

You make I larf Ray

A principled politician is as rare as hens teeth.

I expect his quasi communist wife will be going with him and his children will attend a nice private school.

Maybe all of his lobbying in the EU was not under the pretence of Brexit but really establishing contacts for his new job.

Nice work if you can get it

'Call me Dave ' is sitting on a beach in the south of France with his 'totters up' and writing his memoirs.
Gideon Osborn is the editor of The Evening standard as well as six other paid directorships.

Noses in the trough !

Barney
All the more reason for not trusting the politicians and big corporate and newspaper owners to determine the Brexit outcome.

Or the multi billionaire George Soros
The Hungarian speculator who lives in the USA has chucked millions into the Stop Brexit campaign.
An inconvenient truth !

Spot on Barney and one of my reasons for voting Remain is that I couldn't think of any reason why Bojo Davies IDC and Fox and now JMG would be promoting anything that benefitted joe public. So both being in agreement, where do we go??? The Peoples Vote

[Onelife]

Arise 'Sir' Hypocrite

We shouldn't be surprised.....He has a reputation of jumping into bed with whoever gives him the power he craves for.

[barney]

You make I larf Ray

A principled politician is as rare as hens teeth.

I expect his quasi communist wife will be going with him and his children will attend a nice private school.

Maybe all of his lobbying in the EU was not under the pretence of Brexit but really establishing contacts for his new job.

Nice work if you can get it

'Call me Dave ' is sitting on a beach in the south of France with his 'totters up' and writing his memoirs.
Gideon Osborn is the editor of The Evening standard as well as six other paid directorships.

Noses in the trough !

Barney
All the more reason for not trusting the politicians and big corporate and newspaper owners to determine the Brexit outcome.

Or the multi billionaire George Soros
The Hungarian speculator who lives in the USA has chucked millions into the Stop Brexit campaign.
An inconvenient truth !

Spot on Barney and one of my reasons for voting Remain is that I couldn't think of any reason why Bojo Davies IDC and Fox and now JMG would be promoting anything that benefitted joe public. So both being in agreement, where do we go??? The Peoples Vote

To be absolutely honest Ray, I don't really have a major problem with a second referendum.
Please don't call it a 'people's vote' as if the first one wasn't people voting.
I'd predict that by the way the EU has treated the whole thing thus far, and the absolute contempt that it has shown for a legitimate democratic vote, that the result of any further referendum would be pretty much the same.

I'd reckon that a few have changed their minds both ways, but not enough to get a positive majority either way.

What would happen if the result was the same but even narrower?
What would happen if it was a 50.1% to a 49.9 % ?
What would be the question ? It can only be binary.

Would the question be (please tick one) ?

Remain in the EU
Leave the EU
as previously

Would the question be
May's deal ?
No deal ?

Would the EU want more concessions is we chose to remain?

Would the Brexit side accept the result if they lost ?
They would have a legitimate argument that the losing side last time didn't.

Would 17.5 million people even bother voting again, on anything ?

The only way that there can be a second referendum is for this government to fall and the new government call for it.
But the problem is that Corbyn and Co are fervent Leavers and always have been.
All through his political life he has been anti EU.
The major parts of their manifesto CANNOT be legally implemented while we are members of the EU.
State ownership and Procurement to name but a couple.
It is contrary to EU regulations.

So, the option could be a new Tory leader who is anti Brexit.
Can you please name who that will be.
Hammond could never gather support.
Liddington ? Don't think so.
Maybe Anna Soubry? Who knows.

But you see the predicament.

So, a hundred thousand people can have a nice time in the sun today.
Bang a few drums, take plenty of selfies and pat each other on the back for being rebels.
They then become tomorrows chip wrappings.

[oldbluefox]

To be absolutely honest Ray, I don't really have a major problem with a second referendum.
Please don't call it a 'people's vote' as if the first one wasn't people voting.
I'd predict that by the way the EU has treated the whole thing thus far, and the absolute contempt that it has shown for a legitimate democratic vote, that the result of any further referendum would be pretty much the same.

I'd reckon that a few have changed their minds both ways, but not enough to get a positive majority either way.

What would happen if the result was the same but even narrower?
What would happen if it was a 50.1% to a 49.9 % ?
What would be the question ? It can only be binary.

Would the question be (please tick one) ?

Remain in the EU
Leave the EU
as previously

Would the question be
May's deal ?
No deal ?

Would the EU want more concessions is we chose to remain?

Would the Brexit side accept the result if they lost ?
They would have a legitimate argument that the losing side last time didn't.

Would 17.5 million people even bother voting again, on anything ?

The only way that there can be a second referendum is for this government to fall and the new government call for it.
But the problem is that Corbyn and Co are fervent Leavers and always have been.
All through his political life he has been anti EU.
The major parts of their manifesto CANNOT be legally implemented while we are members of the EU.
State ownership and Procurement to name but a couple.
It is contrary to EU regulations.

So, the option could be a new Tory leader who is anti Brexit.
Can you please name who that will be.
Hammond could never gather support.
Liddington ? Don't think so.
Maybe Anna Soubry? Who knows.

But you see the predicament.

So, a hundred thousand people can have a nice time in the sun today.
Bang a few drums, take plenty of selfies and pat each other on the back for being rebels.
They then become tomorrows chip wrappings.

[Stephen]

[johnds]

So the Remainers are claiming 500,000 at their march today. How did they count them and can we be sure of the numbers

But hey lets say it was 500,00, Just another 16,500,000 to find then.

[Gill W]

Gill only a no deal would require immediate action in April next year, any agreement gives us until the end of 2020 to sort out the paperwork

We haven't got an agreement though, and as the days drift on, its's looking less and less likely we'll get one.

Anyway, in the unlikely event of a deal, I think people would be lulled into a false security with a transition period. Using the last two years as a guide, whats the betting they STILL wouldn't be able progress matters to a sensible conclusion by the end of 2020

the negative view was part of project fear

Nah, I was referring to the Brexit cries of 'it'll be the easiest deal in history'

There are lots of pro EU officials littering up desks in our civil service

Civil servants carry out policy, they don't make policy.

Do leave supporting civil servants also litter desks?

I doubt that the thousands of unemployed youths in the Med states would agree with you Gill.

Governments are responsible for unemployment in their countries, not the EU

[Gill W]

Hi Gill

It's correct to say l've backed a few donkeys in my time but you must ask yourself why no one else has put themselves forward to take Brexit negotiations in a different direction? If her chequers plan is such a disaster for this country surely one of the prominent Brexiteers would have put a stop to it by now? The truth is at this stage of the negotiations there is only one option worth perusing, less of course you would like to see our only realistic chance of a deal toppled by a gang of brexieers who couldn't put together any realistic alternative other than to keep spouting... "we could do this or that" without really knowing what "this or that" would really mean for this country.

Regards

Keith

I have asked myself this - and my answer is that, inspite of all the hot air, the Brexity Conservative MPS like Mogg and Johnson, know that Brexit is a poisoned chalice. Next year, when everything goes pear shaped, that will point the finger at May and say it was all her fault, nothing to do with them at all, as they weren't in charge.

Brexit as sold isn't deliverable. The only sensible thing to do would be to stop it, before it does any more damage.

That's clearly not going to happen, so we have to keep going round this ever decreasing spiral.

The only positive is that it can't drift for ever. 21st January 2019 is a key date. If there is no deal by then the British Government must make a statement on what the UK is going to do, within 5 days

To concentrate the mind, this is just three months away. Or if you prefer, just over 13 weeks.

The time for faffing around is over. But we seem frozen, going nowhere.

[Gill W]

I note predictably sniffy comments about the march today.

There's about 1200 at the Leave Means Leave Rally, and hundreds of thousands of people on the streets of London.

I could understand the sneers if we were at the point we should be at now i.e. our leaving arrangements clarified and well on the way to resolving trade and other matters. But we are no where near that point.

So people want to voice their disapproval, and this is a very visible way of doing it.

We are still a democracy for the time being, you can be as disapproving as you like, but you can't stop people protesting about things they don't like.

The official numbers attending will normally come from the Met Police

[johnds]

The only sensible thing to do would be to stop it, before it does any more damage.

And defy the result of the expressed will of a majority of those that took the opportunity they had to cast their vote
Why ? Because we know better ?

[barney]

Gill only a no deal would require immediate action in April next year, any agreement gives us until the end of 2020 to sort out the paperwork

We haven't got an agreement though, and as the days drift on, its's looking less and less likely we'll get one.

Anyway, in the unlikely event of a deal, I think people would be lulled into a false security with a transition period. Using the last two years as a guide, whats the betting they STILL wouldn't be able progress matters to a sensible conclusion by the end of 2020

the negative view was part of project fear

Nah, I was referring to the Brexit cries of 'it'll be the easiest deal in history'

There are lots of pro EU officials littering up desks in our civil service

Civil servants carry out policy, they don't make policy.

Do leave supporting civil servants also litter desks?

I doubt that the thousands of unemployed youths in the Med states would agree with you Gill.

Governments are responsible for unemployment in their countries, not the EU

Blimey Gill, you are turning into Jack staff, dissecting every phrase and answering it individually.
It's an unusual way of replying.

I might be a bit weird but I don't have too much of a problem if there is no agreement, before we leave.
We leave. Life goes on.
Things will no doubt be different, but to be fair, the majority voted for change.
Change is what they expect and change is what they will get.

I can have no truck with project fear. That is what they have done since the day the referendum was announced.
Pretty well every forecast has been proven to be false.

Follow the money !
The City seems pretty chilled about the whole thing.
Watch Bloomberg or CNBC.
The financial guys have a few concerns but don't seem to worry too much about it all.

The hysteria by people like the Ryanair boss O'Leary get the headlines but mean little.
He said that he was going to ground his planes.
He hasn't.
He said that if no deal was reached by September, he would stop selling flights for after March.
He hasn't.
He said that he will fly no planes in or out of the UK.
He won't.

Your statement about just stopping Brexit is really quite chilling.
To totally ignore a democratic vote will lead to anarchy.
What incentive would there be for anybody to obey instructions or laws.
No matter how many anti democrats take to the streets to protest, the UK will leave the EU on 29th march next year.
All that has to be decided is how?
Nicely or badly !
Either way, I'm sorry but I don't really care.

[johnds]

I note predictably sniffy comments about the march today.

There's about 1200 at the Leave Means Leave Rally, and hundreds of thousands of people on the streets of London.

I could understand the sneers if we were at the point we should be at now i.e. our leaving arrangements clarified and well on the way to resolving trade and other matters. But we are no where near that point.

So people want to voice their disapproval, and this is a very visible way of doing it.

We are still a democracy for the time being, you can be as disapproving as you like, but you can't stop people protesting about things they don't like.

The official numbers attending will normally come from the Met Police

Yes protestors protest and are entitled to do so. They dont like that their view was in the minority

Why should those who were in the majority have any need to organise protest marches
Those marching just wish to overturn the democratically expressed will of the majoirty who voted.

Comparing Farage's attendance is meaningless even if he in his own way is also protesting
So in a way you and Farage are in the same boat

[barney]

I note predictably sniffy comments about the march today.

There's about 1200 at the Leave Means Leave Rally, and hundreds of thousands of people on the streets of London.

I could understand the sneers if we were at the point we should be at now i.e. our leaving arrangements clarified and well on the way to resolving trade and other matters. But we are no where near that point.

So people want to voice their disapproval, and this is a very visible way of doing it.

We are still a democracy for the time being, you can be as disapproving as you like, but you can't stop people protesting about things they don't like.

The official numbers attending will normally come from the Met Police

Yes protestors protest and are entitled to do so. They dont like that their view was in the minority

Why should those who were in the majority have any need to organise protest marches
Those marching just wish to overturn the democratically expressed will of the majoirty who voted.

Comparing Farage's attendance is meaningless even if he in his own way is also protesting
So in a way you and Farage are in the same boat

The population of London is 9 million and voted to remain.
Where are the other 8.5 million ?

[Gill W]

I note predictably sniffy comments about the march today.

There's about 1200 at the Leave Means Leave Rally, and hundreds of thousands of people on the streets of London.

I could understand the sneers if we were at the point we should be at now i.e. our leaving arrangements clarified and well on the way to resolving trade and other matters. But we are no where near that point.

So people want to voice their disapproval, and this is a very visible way of doing it.

We are still a democracy for the time being, you can be as disapproving as you like, but you can't stop people protesting about things they don't like.

The official numbers attending will normally come from the Met Police

Yes protestors protest and are entitled to do so. They dont like that their view was in the minority

Why should those who were in the majority have any need to organise protest marches
Those marching just wish to overturn the democratically expressed will of the majoirty who voted.

Comparing Farage's attendance is meaningless even if he in his own way is also protesting
So in a way you and Farage are in the same boat

The population of London is 9 million and voted to remain.
Where are the other 8.5 million ?

Firstly, You know as well as I do that ALL people don't go on protest marches.

Secondly, they are not all Londoners. They have come from all corners of the UK, and people have returned to the UK to go on this march.

Mobilising hundreds of thousands of people is quite a feat, and it all appears good humoured and without trouble.

You might not like it, but it's rather curlish to keep sniffing at it

[Gill W]

I note predictably sniffy comments about the march today.

There's about 1200 at the Leave Means Leave Rally, and hundreds of thousands of people on the streets of London.

I could understand the sneers if we were at the point we should be at now i.e. our leaving arrangements clarified and well on the way to resolving trade and other matters. But we are no where near that point.

So people want to voice their disapproval, and this is a very visible way of doing it.

We are still a democracy for the time being, you can be as disapproving as you like, but you can't stop people protesting about things they don't like.

The official numbers attending will normally come from the Met Police

Yes protestors protest and are entitled to do so. They dont like that their view was in the minority

Why should those who were in the majority have any need to organise protest marches
Those marching just wish to overturn the democratically expressed will of the majoirty who voted.

Comparing Farage's attendance is meaningless even if he in his own way is also protesting
So in a way you and Farage are in the same boat

I will never be in the same boat as Farage

[towny44]

I doubt that the thousands of unemployed youths in the Med states would agree with you Gill.

Governments are responsible for unemployment in their countries, not the EU

Oh come on Gill you have shown a clinical understanding of the issues in previous posts, so I certainly expect you to understand why the EU financial rules are depressing the economies of the Med States.

[Gill W]

Just a note to Barney

I only did the dissecting thing as I was on the laptop.

I'm on my iPad now and it's to fiddly to quote single lines of text.

Generally, when one is in a hole or predicament, one stops doing the thing that is putting you in the predicament.

THAT is what I was talking about when I said the sensible thing would be to stop Brexit, I.e. Stop doing the thing that's causing all the problems.

My very next sentence said that this was not going to happen, so there's no need at all for you to be chilled.

I'm going to stop posting on this subject for a while, because no progress is being made, and we are just rehashing points that have been made time and time again.

The next time something is due to happen (or not happen) is December. I don't expect to post before then.

[Jack Staff]

Thank you Gill for your valued contributions to the forum. I look forward you your return, but I would expect it before December. A week is a long time and all that.

Having met some of the Farage followers on his 'tour', my disdain for him and his clan has reached total.

After today I have very sore feet, but a renewed hope in the British population.

I may well follow your sensible example.

[Onelife]

Hi Jack.....you won't get any sympathy from me for your pointless sore feet stroll around London.

So you were marching for a final say on the brexit deal....how bloody stupid was that..... how many times do you need to be told Jack "the lady ain't for moving"

P.s Epsom salts work well for sore feet.

[Jack Staff]

Hi Jack.....you won't get any sympathy from me for your pointless sore feet stroll around London.

So you were marching for a final say on the brexit deal....how bl**dy stupid was that..... how many times do you need to be told Jack "the lady ain't for moving"

P.s Epsom salts work well for sore feet.

I don't want your sympathy. Being with over half a million people who hold proper British values is more than enough to cure sore feet.

[Ray Scully]

Why should I be concerned over the result of Brexit, the political scene is becoming now more scary with the choice between J R Mogg Tommy Robinson and Farage or Corbyn Seamus Milne and Jon Lansdown.

[Onelife]

Hi Jack.....you won't get any sympathy from me for your pointless sore feet stroll around London.

So you were marching for a final say on the brexit deal....how bl**dy stupid was that..... how many times do you need to be told Jack "the lady ain't for moving"

P.s Epsom salts work well for sore feet.

I don't want your sympathy. Being with over half a million people who hold proper British values is more than enough to cure sore feet.

I'm all for British values Jack which is why l voted for Brexit...its just a shame remainers like you don't respect our British democratic processes.

Remainers should be getting behind the chequers deal...why?...because while we are being held ransom in the EU you remainers will have more time to keep us in.....Once out, we are out for good.....think a out it Jack.