Ray Scully wrote: 24 Oct 2018, 13:20
Onelife wrote: 24 Oct 2018, 12:01
Yes Ray...l think Brexiteers (me still being one of them) were all working on the assumption that we held the upper hand but failed to grasp how entrenched we had become in what has proved to be a dictatorial entrapment of sovereign countries.
It has taken 40+ years to get ourselves into this mess so my way of thinking is that if it takes a few more years to get us out of the mess.... using Theresa May's softer option (or something similar) withdrawal then l can live with it.
Considering the alternatives l think you remainers should soften your stance and do what's best for our country now that we only have two options left.
I don't think Jacks feet are up for another stroll around London do you?
Regards
Keith
IMHO Keith there are only 2 REAL choices. A complete break in March next year and take on board the effects of this OR to stay in and have an input
to the EU and continue to change it from within. Sadly neither will command a majority. With the situation so polarised I think an EEA solution would be a compromise that reasonable folks would accept
You clearly haven't read any of the links I have posted Ray.
The EU is not for changing. Or should I say not for changing in any way that most would find acceptable.
The only change that is going to happen within the EU is more federalism. They make no secret of that.
Many actually gloat about it.
The EU intends to go in exactly the opposite direction to what I would find acceptable.
The only thing actually up for debate is the speed of federalisation.
Some like Macron want it quicker, others like the Visegrad group want a slower pace.
The imposition of qualified majority voting will ensure that this happens sooner rather than later.
So, as I've said on numerous occasions, it is either leave the EU or remain in a EU federation of states, with Brussels dictating the way forward.
Now, to be fair, many might be very happy with that situation.
But to pretend that the status quo will remain is ignorant at best.
The EU is moving up to the next phase of federalisation and I think that we'd be best off out of it.
Surely the ones who voted to remain have done enough research to find out what they would like to remain in?
At last week's march in London, a journalist was asking questions to the protesters.
Who is the President of the EU, he asked.
Nearly everyone said Juncker.
They seemed surprised to find out thaat there are three Presidents in the EU.
What is the name of your MEP he asked.
Nobody could answer. Not a single person ( I don't know the name of mine btw)
There is an unhealthy obsession with fighting to stay in something that most know nothing about.
Jack staff is our resident EU obsessive, but I'd happily wager that I know much more about the EU and how it operates that he does.
A few hours research is quite an eye opener.
A quote below from the new Spanish Prime minister today
“Unfortunately, it was not possible to reject the request of the U.K. to withdraw from the EU,” he said, adding that he believes “Brexit is a tragedy for the British and for the Europeans.”
I read that as they would have liked the mechanism to reject the referendum result and reject triggering article 50.
Says it all really doesn't it.
A region in his own country has a referendum to become independent.
The result is ignored and they bring in the police to beat up on grannies trying to vote.
I appreciate that democracy is quite new to them, but even so, it is not the UK's tradition to ignore legitimate votes.
