Brexit

[towny44]

From my point of view, I wouldn't mind Labour having a go at running the place.
Austerity has gone too far in my opinion, but that's for another argument.

Well how about this as a starter Barney. NI contributions to be paid by those over 65 with an income of circa £25K (contribution to the disproportionate costs of treating we oldies) A 10% tax on house sales on bereavement of the last partner ( To provide for social care funding). A minimum wage of £10 (would help to stop taxpayer topping up low wages. A massive house building project to bring down private rents (again subsidised by the taxpayer)

Right! collecting my hard had and heading for the bunker

That all sounds very laudable Ray, but will the income from your tax increases pay for all your spending plans, I very much doubt it so where will the money come from.
It is very much a socialist viewpoint which takes absolutely no account of the likely tax avoidance that would be undertaken by those who would be expected to provide most, and as a result is doomed to failure.

[screwy]

The last thing i want is Labour to have a go. They have had a go before and always manage to screw it up..no thanks.

[Golden Princess]

Just curious - What age is everyone who posts on this thread?

I am not actually expecting answers - and if you asked me I probably wouldn't tell.

[oldbluefox]

I'm just a few years past my 21st - ish!!!

[Gill W]

Maybe the average poster on this subject on here is more aware than the average Twitterati.

I certainly have no fear or loathing of the EU and sincerely hope that they flourish after we have left.
We need wealthy trading partners, wherever they may be.

Those who bother to do the research know full well which way the EU is going and it's not the way that I want our country to go.

Maybe the ones who wish to remain in it are fine with that.

I think a telling question is, would this country vote to join the EU if there was a vote tomorrow?

What do you think, honestly?

With all the facts exposed before the vote.

Maybe the referendum result wasn't really to leave the EU but to not remain in it?

Twitter gives me access experts in every imaginable field who spend hours tweeting about how Brexit is going to affect us. I realise people follow those of like mind, buy I regularly search key words so I can see what people I don't follow are saying. Basically, there's nothing positive out there. It boggles my mind that Brexiters don't pause for a while and ponder whether this is really such a good idea, bearing in mind the weight of opinion against it, and things that are now actually happening.

So you have no fear of the EU, yet, in virtually the next sentence you mention again your fears, that you regularly post about at length, about the future of the EU.

Your question about joining the EU is impossible to answer, so I'm not even going to try. If we weren't currently in the EU, we wouldn't be where we are now, and our history would be different. The EU would be different, and we'd have our own trade deals, and other arrangements which may or may not be better than those offered by the EU.

I'm not in to 'whatiffery', I'm more interested in what's actually happening in the here and now.

[barney]

Maybe the average poster on this subject on here is more aware than the average Twitterati.

I certainly have no fear or loathing of the EU and sincerely hope that they flourish after we have left.
We need wealthy trading partners, wherever they may be.

Those who bother to do the research know full well which way the EU is going and it's not the way that I want our country to go.

Maybe the ones who wish to remain in it are fine with that.

I think a telling question is, would this country vote to join the EU if there was a vote tomorrow?

What do you think, honestly?

With all the facts exposed before the vote.

Maybe the referendum result wasn't really to leave the EU but to not remain in it?

Twitter gives me access experts in every imaginable field who spend hours tweeting about how Brexit is going to affect us. I realise people follow those of like mind, buy I regularly search key words so I can see what people I don't follow are saying. Basically, there's nothing positive out there. It boggles my mind that Brexiters don't pause for a while and ponder whether this is really such a good idea, bearing in mind the weight of opinion against it, and things that are now actually happening.

So you have no fear of the EU, yet, in virtually the next sentence you mention again your fears, that you regularly post about at length, about the future of the EU.

Your question about joining the EU is impossible to answer, so I'm not even going to try. If we weren't currently in the EU, we wouldn't be where we are now, and our history would be different. The EU would be different, and we'd have our own trade deals, and other arrangements which may or may not be better than those offered by the EU.

I'm not in to 'whatiffery', I'm more interested in what's actually happening in the here and now.

You may not be Gill. but many who deny the result are.
What actually is happening 'here and now' ?
I've certainly not noticed a ground swell of revolution.

All we've heard about is could happen or might happen.

Even your experts on Twitter are only giving a best guess unless of course they are time travellers as well as experts.
It's impossible to say exactly what will happen in advance of any situation.

There is a hard core on both sides of the argument that are not for changing their minds
670,000 middle class and middle aged people showed that in London last week.
The March to challenge the government was just a bit of a damp squib and very quickly forgotten.
Still they got some nice selfies and can say 'I was there'
Marches never change anything. Even with the Poll Tax, it was the riots after, not the march itself.
I should know because I was there.

Millions in between just really want it all over and we can then concentrate on things that are really important to every day lives.

The world is not going to end on March 30th.
That is another inconvenient fact, along with all of the other facts that I have posted.

[Gill W]

We are all really going round in circles on this, all of us reiterating our main reasons for our voting decisions, which seems unlikely to change, so until there is a final decision on whether there is some sort of agreement or no deal at all, its unlikely there will be anything new to discuss.
I do believe that we all now know far more about leaving the EU than we did back in 2016, but that still does not seem to have changed our voting decisions, now how far we can extrapolate that to the rest of the electorate I don't really know, but I suspect it does reflect the current situation, despite Gill thinking all brexiters are plain daft.

I agree we are all going round in circles.

I think we really need to move on from all the continued justification about who we voted for, accusations of Project Fear and name calling.

I've said before that I don't really want to post that much while there is no progress being made, but it's like a sore you can't stop picking at.

I would like to think it was possible just to discuss Brexit news as it happens, like this from a could of days ago

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -wto-terms

However, I think it'll be just pushed aside as it's something that people with a Brexit mindset don't particularly want to face.

I don't think all Brexiters are daft, but I find it completely astonishing that otherwise apparantly sane people are ignoring the weight of informed opinion that suggests a no deal will be catastrophic and even a deal Brexit will make us less well off.

Not to mention the things that are now happening. The government considering chartering ships and boats to keep medicine and food supplies following. In peace time, for God's sake. To prepare for something we are inflicting on ourselves. It's a kind of madness.

To keep it simple, from now, I will only be posting about current news. I won't respond to anything else, it takes up too much time and is pointless

[Gill W]

Maybe the average poster on this subject on here is more aware than the average Twitterati.

I certainly have no fear or loathing of the EU and sincerely hope that they flourish after we have left.
We need wealthy trading partners, wherever they may be.

Those who bother to do the research know full well which way the EU is going and it's not the way that I want our country to go.

Maybe the ones who wish to remain in it are fine with that.

I think a telling question is, would this country vote to join the EU if there was a vote tomorrow?

What do you think, honestly?

With all the facts exposed before the vote.

Maybe the referendum result wasn't really to leave the EU but to not remain in it?

Twitter gives me access experts in every imaginable field who spend hours tweeting about how Brexit is going to affect us. I realise people follow those of like mind, buy I regularly search key words so I can see what people I don't follow are saying. Basically, there's nothing positive out there. It boggles my mind that Brexiters don't pause for a while and ponder whether this is really such a good idea, bearing in mind the weight of opinion against it, and things that are now actually happening.

So you have no fear of the EU, yet, in virtually the next sentence you mention again your fears, that you regularly post about at length, about the future of the EU.

Your question about joining the EU is impossible to answer, so I'm not even going to try. If we weren't currently in the EU, we wouldn't be where we are now, and our history would be different. The EU would be different, and we'd have our own trade deals, and other arrangements which may or may not be better than those offered by the EU.

I'm not in to 'whatiffery', I'm more interested in what's actually happening in the here and now.

You may not be Gill. but many who deny the result are.
What actually is happening 'here and now' ?
I've certainly not noticed a ground swell of revolution.

All we've heard about is could happen or might happen.

Even your experts on Twitter are only giving a best guess unless of course they are time travellers as well as experts.
It's impossible to say exactly what will happen in advance of any situation.

There is a hard core on both sides of the argument that are not for changing their minds
670,000 middle class and middle aged people showed that in London last week.
The March to challenge the government was just a bit of a damp squib and very quickly forgotten.
Still they got some nice selfies and can say 'I was there'
Marches never change anything. Even with the Poll Tax, it was the riots after, not the march itself.
I should know because I was there.

Millions in between just really want it all over and we can then concentrate on things that are really important to every day lives.

The world is not going to end on March 30th.
That is another inconvenient fact, along with all of the other facts that I have posted.

As I said in my previous post, I'm not going round in to another circle of hell to answer you.

You have dismissed all the people that spend hours on Twitter trying to help and inform people, without knowing what they've said or even who they are.

Whereas EVERYTHING you say is a fact. ( nobody has said the world is ending on 30th March, that’s just you being over dramatic)

There's no point in spending time and energy talking to someone with that mindset.

[barney]

Simply because what I post are absolute facts.
That is... after an event has happened.

I don't speculate on what could or might happen, just what has.

your Bloomberg link above is a good example.
The headline reads bad but then when you actually read the whole article it says this

“This is uncharted territory for them,” New Zealand Trade Minister David Parker said in an interview on the sidelines of a WTO ministerial meeting in Ottawa, adding that it was the right decision for the U.K. to invoke the Article 28 process. “We’ll engage in that to protect our interests. We are confident it will have a fair outcome given the undertakings that have already been made by Liam Fox. No one should be worse off as a consequence.”

Countries are rightly concerned that they could lose easy access to the UK market after Brexit, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will.
The decisions will be ours.
Not Brussels but London.
That was sort of the point of the whole thing.

[towny44]

I never realised that Twitter was an intellectual forum to help educate the masses Gill, there was I avoiding it because I thought it was inhabited by trolls who got their kicks from dissing other forum members.

[Gill W]

Just curious - What age is everyone who posts on this thread?

I am not actually expecting answers - and if you asked me I probably wouldn't tell.

58

[Golden Princess]

Thank Gill. May be the start of everyone telling us!!

I amuse myself by imagining the ages and looks of the posters on this site! Have had some interesting results based on the postings.

[towny44]

Not telling you, but I will qualify for a free TV license next year.

[Ray Scully]

Not telling you, but I will qualify for a free TV license next year.

There we go again rich oldies looking for a free TV Licence I put my application in yesterday after being reminded about it whilst watching Sky

[Manoverboard]

Not telling you, but I will qualify for a free TV license next year.

Shame that …. come the Budget announcement this afternoon they will be axing them else moving the age qualification to 80

[Onelife]

Those of us on here who voted to leave are, I believe, generally more intelligent and wise than some of the idiots who post on ' Twitter '.

Most of us are also of an age where we have experienced life with and indeed without the influences of the EU. We voted to join way back believing that our future would be brighter. However we can see clearer than some which way the EU is heading and want NO part of it … that does not equate to a loathing of the EU and it is well out of order to suggest otherwise.

Moby Folk have as many differing views on the EU as there are on the differing reason why we should be leaving, resulting in an inconclusive dog's breakfast.

Surely Ray, the different reasons for leaving the EU are irrelevant now, as are the differing views on why we should ignore the vote.

The inconclusive dogs breakfast has not been caused by the vote to leave, it's been caused by the Government of the day.
Had May decided a route out, whatever that happened to be, and stuck to it, most of these problems could have been avoided.
Labour's policy is outside of the single market and an end to free movement but remaining in the/a customs union.
We'll never know if they could have seen that through as they lost the last election. At least they had a plan.

May's policy of flip, flopping around and trying to please all has ended with pleasing no one.

May is the problem, not the vote to leave.

Had she taken a stance from the beginning and stuck to it, she might have had a better chance of seeing it through.
She should have stated her position and selected a cabinet that agreed with her, then gone for it, whatever it was.
You cannot govern by consensus at that level.

History will judge her badly as a PM.
All we've had from her is Brexit means Brexit !!!!

Her main quality seems to be exceptional at being a punch bag.

A leader leads. She has shown no leadership in my opinion.
She has allowed the EU to dictate all of the negotiating terms and timetables and that shows weakness.

She should never have put herself up for the job, without the ability to do a good one.

She is doomed as the PM, it's just a matter of when.

Hi Barney,

You'll be pleased to hear the kitchen sink has arrived at No 10 along with everything else you've thrown at Theresa May's front door....unfairly in my opinion.


One thing is clear, she along with her cabinet did take a stance but it became obvious very early on that the EU were in the driving seat. Davis, with sword in hand was soon cut down to size, finding that his way wasn't the EU way .


What is clear....if we were to get all that we had wanted the EU would be finished......clearly not a position the EU would put themselves in. The flip flopping is a result of not understanding the complexity of whom and  what we were taking on...


You say  "she should have stated her position and selected a cabinet  that agreed with her".....for the most she did surround herself with those ministers but after months of our chief negotiator (Davis) not making any progress (main issues) she along with her cabinet decided to change tack.... The right  decision for our country imo and one in which l haven't seen her flip flopping over either.



Regards


Keith

[Gill W]

Thank Gill. May be the start of everyone telling us!!

I amuse myself by imagining the ages and looks of the posters on this site! Have had some interesting results based on the postings.

I always think most orf our fellow forum -ites are in their 60's and 70's, reflecting the age on an average cruise outside of the school holidays, on my last cruise the average age was 73

[screwy]

Waiting to watch the budget, wish some one would put a water cannon on the handful of remainers making a bloody awful noise.

[Gill W]

I never realised that Twitter was an intellectual forum to help educate the masses Gill, there was I avoiding it because I thought it was inhabited by trolls who got their kicks from dissing other forum members.

The truth is, Twitter is what you make it.

I don't like Facebook very much, so I always avoided it, but a friend thought I might like Twitter. I was sceptical, but gave it a go, and to my surprise I really enjoyed it.

I follow people who reflect my interests and what I enjoy, so I've got my book people, my history people, my Strictly people, my travel people, my amusing animal video people, my finance people, my Remain people and the people who just make me smile. Some of these people fit into several categories, others don't. As I've said, I've also got access to experts and knowledgeable people in all sorts of spheres, so I've been able to inform myself. Plus, you can also look and see what people you don't agree with are saying. Yes, there are trolls, but I don't put myself in their way, so it's not an issue for me. Occasionally, I've had to mute or block a person, but it's rare.

In normal circumstances, I'd suggest you try it yourself for a while. But nothing is normal at the moment, so I won't.

[Gill W]

Waiting to watch the budget, wish some one would put a water cannon on the handful of remainers making a bl**dy awful noise.

And I wish you'd stop making snippy remarks about Remainers

[screwy]

Ts a free country,one I have spent 30 yrs of my life helping to keep free, I will make any comments I wish,if you don’t like it ,tough.

[Ray Scully]

Ts a free country,one I have spent 30 yrs of my life helping to keep free, I will make any comments I wish,if you don’t like it ,tough.

Screwy a trait I find most common amongst those who use a nom de net

[screwy]

It seems to me that it’s ok for some here to criticise brexiteers but when comments are made re remainers then calls of Stop it are made.I may use a nom de net, I tend to use it for most of my nick names,when you’ve done my jobs,both. In the military and Hmps you don’t advertise your name. Jack once told me to leave the playground.! Believe me,you wouldn’t like to be in the playgrounds I’ve been in. I also stand by my comments.get used to it.

[Onelife]

Just curious - What age is everyone who posts on this thread?

I am not actually expecting answers - and if you asked me I probably wouldn't tell.

Hi Princess

65, but with the looks and body of a 40 year old........well that's what Stephen told me

[screwy]

21 with 46 yrs experience.