Brexit

[david63]

What I don't understand is how Mrs. May thinks she's going to get it through in Parliament, unless she's hoping that people will be so scared of the possibility of No Deal that she'll frighten them into accepting her proposal.

Carole

That combined with the possibility of a Labour Government is the hope that at least the Conservative members of Parliament, and hopefully a few others, will see as their only option.

[daib GC]

What I don't understand is how Mrs. May thinks she's going to get it through in Parliament, unless she's hoping that people will be so scared of the possibility of No Deal that she'll frighten them into accepting her proposal.

Carole

That combined with the possibility of a Labour Government is the hope that at least the Conservative members of Parliament, and hopefully a few others, will see as their only option.

Only she has a minority government so needs to persuade more than her own party.

[Gill W]

I saw a news report that said that 100 Conservative MP's could vote against the Withdrawal Agreement.

Of course, what they say now, could be completely different to when they come to vote, but on the face of it, May would appear to have an uphill battle getting it through Parliament.

It's not surprising, as it is an awful deal. As has already been said, we will be rule takers, not rule makers, we wouldn't be able to withdraw from the agreement unilaterally, and we could be stuck in this situation for years.

As I write this, Spain still haven't agreed to the Withdrawal Agreement. However, they can't veto it, so, for the moment at least, the Sunday Summit is still on.

However, Spain, and any of the other EU27 with an axe to grind could veto any future trade agreement. Bearing in mind it's taken 2 years to get to this point, the trade agreement could take forever, and all the time we'll be beholden to the EU with no means of escape.

If that had been on the voting slip, I doubt if anybody would have voted for that.

My prediction is that parliament will vote down the Withdrawal Agreement, but 'something' will happen to stop us crashing out without a deal

[towny44]

I saw a news report that said that 100 Conservative MP's could vote against the Withdrawal Agreement.

Of course, what they say now, could be completely different to when they come to vote, but on the face of it, May would appear to have an uphill battle getting it through Parliament.

It's not surprising, as it is an awful deal. As has already been said, we will be rule takers, not rule makers, we wouldn't be able to withdraw from the agreement unilaterally, and we could be stuck in this situation for years.

As I write this, Spain still haven't agreed to the Withdrawal Agreement. However, they can't veto it, so, for the moment at least, the Sunday Summit is still on.

However, Spain, and any of the other EU27 with an axe to grind could veto any future trade agreement. Bearing in mind it's taken 2 years to get to this point, the trade agreement could take forever, and all the time we'll be beholden to the EU with no means of escape.

If that had been on the voting slip, I doubt if anybody would have voted for that.

My prediction is that parliament will vote down the Withdrawal Agreement, but 'something' will happen to stop us crashing out without a deal

All the points you make are valid Gill but only if there is no ultimate deal. I seem to remember that most remainers on here thought it would be impossible for us to get this stage, and yet here we are.

[Manoverboard]

The points made are valid regarding Gill but that does not make them valid … just saying.

[Onelife]

I think it will be a very close call either way come the vote in parliament, with perhaps the DUP swinging it to a no deal.....sadly Theresa didn't take on board what happened to Nick when he jumped into bed with David.

Perhaps thats a little unfair as she didn't have much choice in the matter, but having an alliance with a party that has only ever had its own, mostly archaic voting objectives at heart then it will come as no surprise if they end up with the deciding vote to scupper the deal.

If the vote doesn't go through then l can't see that Theresa has any other option but to resign...Indeed, this may be our best option of getting the backstop fiasco sorted. Someone said, many months back, that the final deal won't be done until the 11 hour, this could well turn out to be the case, but make no mistake about it if this dose prove to be the case the hard line brexiteers will have softened their approach to something identical to that of the chequers deal but with some kind of unilateral withdrawal arrangement throw in ....that's if they/ we are very, very lucky, and have nerves of steel.....If not we will end up with something far worse.....don't anyone think WTO will be a workable altetnative because negotiating trade deals within and outside of the EU will be a complete nightmare..... leading to food parcel queues longer than the M 25.

This could have all been so different if we had all accepted the democratic vote of the majority.

[Gill W]

All the points you make are valid Gill but only if there is no ultimate deal. I seem to remember that most remainers on here thought it would be impossible for us to get this stage, and yet here we are.

I don't think anybody, Remainer or Leaver, thought we'd end up where we are, at this stage!

[Gill W]

The points made are valid regarding Gill but that does not make them valid … just saying.

Sounds rather dismissive to me.

If I didn't know better, I'd think you were trying to stir things up

[Gill W]

This could have all been so different if we had all accepted the democratic vote of the majority.

It was an advisory vote - and Teresa May accepted what the majority at that time advised her.

i certainly accepted the outcome of the referendum.


Even if the whole country had jumped up and down with joy, it still wouldn't have made the Irish border any different

However, I'm leaving it here as I don't want to have another circular discussion

[towny44]

This could have all been so different if we had all accepted the democratic vote of the majority.

It was an advisory vote - and Teresa May accepted what the majority at that time advised her.

i certainly accepted the outcome of the referendum.


Even if the whole country had jumped up and down with joy, it still wouldn't have made the Irish border any different

However, I'm leaving it here as I don't want to have another circular discussion

Was it only advisory? I understood it was a referendum to allow the electorate to decide whether we left the EU or not, was I mislead?

[Gill W]

Parliament is sovereign, not ‘the people’, so any referendum can only be advisory, and not legally binding.

[towny44]

Parliament is sovereign, not ‘the people’, so any referendum can only be advisory, and not legally binding.

From my recollection the leaflet about the referendum said "This is your decision. The Govt will implement what you decide". That sounds a bit more than advisory.

[Onelife]

Parliament is sovereign, not ‘the people’, so any referendum can only be advisory, and not legally binding.

From my recollection the leaflet about the referendum said "This is your decision. The Govt will implement what you decide". That sounds a bit more than advisory.

referendum
/ˌrɛfəˈrɛndəm/Submit
noun
a general vote by the electorate on a single political question which has been referred to them for a direct decision.

The government of that time promised to implement that decision.

[Gill W]

From Wikipedia

‘On 3rd November 2016, the High Court held that the referendum was advisory for the Law makers in Parliament’

[Onelife]

From Wikipedia
‘On 3rd November 2016, the High Court held that the referendum was advisory for the Law makers in Parliament’

So the Government kept their promise and acted upon the decision of the people.. dispels the remaineers claim that the vote was 'illegal' .

[Manoverboard]

The points made are valid regarding Gill but that does not make them valid … just saying.

Sounds rather dismissive to me.

If I didn't know better, I'd think you were trying to stir things up

Hardly, please consider ….

This site prefers the ' source ' to be shown rather than using selected comment. As an example within your own posting ...

" I saw a news report that said that 100 Conservative MP's could vote against the Withdrawal Agreement. "

Let us accept for illustrative purposes that there are a total of 600+ Reporters / Political Correspondents / Lobbyists etc out there covering the Brexit / TM story. Every day we are getting figures of some sort, even every couple of hours in many cases. This potentially equates to approx 40,000 enquiries being made to every Member of the Conservative Party over a period of one month. Do the Politicians provide an honest or a political response, do they even know the answer … are there enough hours in the day to keep answering all these darned questions ?

Pure speculation and, in my opinion, a case of ' Fake News ' … which ( now speaking as a ModPlod ) can stir things up.

[Onelife]

As Theresa jets off to Brussels l hope she is of mind to tweak the withdrawal draft with a clause that states "other countries can't undermine the process for their own political gain".

There should be no concessions to Spain over Gibraltar whatsoever....it belongs to the UK.....get over it Spain.

[Gill W]

Hardly, please consider ….

This site prefers the ' source ' to be shown rather than using selected comment. As an example within your own posting ...

" I saw a news report that said that 100 Conservative MP's could vote against the Withdrawal Agreement. "

Let us accept for illustrative purposes that there are a total of 600+ Reporters / Political Correspondents / Lobbyists etc out there covering the Brexit / TM story. Every day we are getting figures of some sort, even every couple of hours in many cases. This potentially equates to approx 40,000 enquiries being made to every Member of the Conservative Party over a period of one month. Do the Politicians provide an honest or a political response, do they even know the answer … are there enough hours in the day to keep answering all these darned questions ?

Pure speculation and, in my opinion, a case of ' Fake News ' … which ( now speaking as a ModPlod ) can stir things up.

Source

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit/77 ... ay-brexit/

[Gill W]

From Wikipedia

‘On 3rd November 2016, the High Court held that the referendum was advisory for the Law makers in Parliament’

Source

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_ ... m_Act_2015

Under subheading Legislative Consequences

[Gill W]

From Wikipedia
‘On 3rd November 2016, the High Court held that the referendum was advisory for the Law makers in Parliament’

So the Government kept their promise and acted upon the decision of the people.. dispels the remaineers claim that the vote was 'illegal' .

According to a mod, this site prefers the source to be shown rather than a selected comment

The mod further says that 'Fake News' can stir things up.

Back seat moderation removed

Thanks

[Manoverboard]

... Someone said, many months back, that the final deal won't be done until the 11 hour, this could well turn out to be the case …

That ' someone ' was me but other Members could have also made the same assessment

[Onelife]

... Someone said, many months back, that the final deal won't be done until the 11 hour, this could well turn out to be the case …

That ' someone ' was me but other Members could have also made the same assessment

Probably before you Mob

[Manoverboard]

The Chancellor says the Brexit Deal is better than staying in the EU.

[towny44]

From Wikipedia

‘On 3rd November 2016, the High Court held that the referendum was advisory for the Law makers in Parliament’

That may be the legal interpretation based on the limited previous data and our lack of a written constitution; but if the result had gone the other way how would you have felt if the government had bowed to leavers pressure and decided to have another vote to get the result right?

[Gill W]

From Wikipedia

‘On 3rd November 2016, the High Court held that the referendum was advisory for the Law makers in Parliament’

That may be the legal interpretation based on the limited previous data and our lack of a written constitution; but if the result had gone the other way how would you have felt if the government had bowed to leavers pressure and decided to have another vote to get the result right?

If the result of the referendum had been Remain, and two years down the line we were in a state of chaos, and were definitely going to be much worse off and lose control over things we currently control, then yes, I think I would have to agree that the question needed to be asked again.

For me, it's not about winning, losing or getting the 'right result', it is about doing the best for our country.