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Brexit

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oldbluefox
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Re: Brexit

Unread post by oldbluefox »

Looks like Jack still thinks if we leave the EU on a no deal we will never darken their threshold again and will never deal with them for ever more. Not true Jack. The hoary old chestnut of them being 27 whilst we are 1 doesn't wash either. It's not just the German car industry. The French, Italians and Spanish are in there too along with all the other foreign goods we import. It is ludicrous to think we will never trade with these countries again but it satisfies the Remain argument and sadly, some people fall for it.

I have taken up your offer to review EU spending in my area, thank you. The results were revealing and are as follows:
    Provision of 60% of funding over a three year period for the development of 10 industrial units
      A grant for the exchange of 16 young people
        A grant to local primary schools to Promote Lifelong Learning in Sport.
        Talk about fiddling whilst Rome burns.
        In an area which has suffered a decline in major manufacturing industry over the years and lacks a poor infrastructure in road, rail and medical links you might say I am underwhelmed. All icing and no cake...........

        I am still mystified why we need to give money to the EU for them to give some of it back promoting their own little hobby horses. Are we not capable any more of deciding where our own priorities lie?
        I was taught to be cautious

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        Jack Staff
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        Re: Brexit

        Unread post by Jack Staff »

        oldbluefox wrote: 07 Dec 2018, 10:49
        Looks like Jack still thinks if we leave the EU on a no deal we will never darken their threshold again and will never deal with them for ever more. Not true Jack. The hoary old chestnut of them being 27 whilst we are 1 doesn't wash either. It's not just the German car industry. The French, Italians and Spanish are in there too along with all the other foreign goods we import. It is ludicrous to think we will never trade with these countries again but it satisfies the Remain argument and sadly, some people fall for it.
        Tariffs stop trade, that's why everyone wants FTA's. But these are always negotiated to ones own advantage. More important than 27:1 in this case is the 10:1 advantage they have over us. We can not get a better deal than the one we currently have.
        oldbluefox wrote: 07 Dec 2018, 10:49
        I have taken up your offer to review EU spending in my area, thank you. The results were revealing and are as follows:
          Provision of 60% of funding over a three year period for the development of 10 industrial units
            A grant for the exchange of 16 young people
              A grant to local primary schools to Promote Lifelong Learning in Sport.
              Talk about fiddling whilst Rome burns.
              In an area which has suffered a decline in major manufacturing industry over the years and lacks a poor infrastructure in road, rail and medical links you might say I am underwhelmed. All icing and no cake...........
              You forgot seventy years of peace on our doorstep. The power to fight climate change. The union of many countries that is hated by both Putin and Trump (why do you think they hate the EU? Certainly not because it threatens our money our borders....). The ability to engage in large projects (Galileo being just one example), as you already know I could bore you with lots more.
              oldbluefox wrote: 07 Dec 2018, 10:49
              I am still mystified why we need to give money to the EU for them to give some of it back promoting their own little hobby horses. Are we not capable any more of deciding where our own priorities lie?
              Obviously not by the amount of money the Westminster government spends in Cumbria (or even outside the M25 TBH).

              Anyway, must go, don't want to miss her resignation speech. ;)
              Testiculi ad Brexitum. Venceremos.

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              oldbluefox
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by oldbluefox »

              Jack Staff wrote: 07 Dec 2018, 11:48
              You forgot seventy years of peace on our doorstep. The power to fight climate change. The union of many countries that is hated by both Putin and Trump (why do you think they hate the EU? Certainly not because it threatens our money our borders....). The ability to engage in large projects (Galileo being just one example), as you already know I could bore you with lots more.
              You believe having the EU is the reason for peace on our doorstep? Really? Power to fight climate change? Not done very well there have we? Perhaps best to have a word with Mr Macron. Hatred of Putin and Trump for the EU?
              It's all a load of piffle Jack.
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              Ray Scully
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by Ray Scully »

              Leaving the EU now comes down to Europhobia, I can't see any justifiable benefits at all to leaving apart from for some, the separation from 'Johhny Foreigner :-(

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              oldbluefox
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by oldbluefox »

              The problem we have at the moment is the mess we have all been left in. Once the result of the referendum was known we should have negotiated as a united country. Instead we opened up divisions within our country with everybody wanting their own say which must have been succour to the EU. We were not united at all and now we pay the price.

              Nowt wrong with Johnny Foreigner Ray. Even Johnny Foreigner is not happy with the EU.
              I was taught to be cautious


              Quizzical Bob
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by Quizzical Bob »

              Onelife wrote: 07 Dec 2018, 00:40
              oldbluefox wrote: 06 Dec 2018, 21:24
              The fact remains they need us as much as we need them. No deal threatens thousands of jobs in the German motor industry alone. Around these parts there is an absolute dislike of the EU. We have not benefited from our membership but have suffered the consequences of its policies so why contribute so much money to something which is of no benefit to you.
              You are correct Foxy...They do need us as much as we need them........economics dictate that fact

              Jobs will be lost on both sides of the channel...which is why we need to come to sensible trade deals through a sensible withdrawal plan.

              Clearly 52% of those who voted agree with you.

              Being a member of the EU has certainly stifled our ability to embrace the opportunities that lie beyond........There have been bennifits, many of which we will adopt once we leave the EU....that being said l'm sure we could come up with equally good legislation/standards if we didn't have to throw billions into Brussels hospitality fund.
              Economics do no such thing, it's exactly the opposite. Just look at the relative sizes of the two economies and then come to your senses. The EU can survive quite comfortably without us, it would only mean a drop of a couple of percent for them and they are prepared to acept that for the cause of keeping the Single Market intact. We would suffer a drop of ten percent or more.

              As longs as you keep up with this pretence that 'They need us more than we need them' then you will never be convinced. Brexit doesn't even figure in any economic discussions in the major EU countries. We shall be condemned to crawl along forever in the economic slow lane of depression.

              A no-deal outcome would be absolute disaster for the UK and anybody who says otherwise doesn't have the faintest idea what is in store for them.

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              Manoverboard
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by Manoverboard »

              oldbluefox wrote: 07 Dec 2018, 12:02
              … the EU is the reason for peace on our doorstep ? ...
              Exactly, we have nothing to fear in the knowledge that the Italian Army will be fighting on the same side as us … albeit briefly :lol:

              :wave:
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              david63
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by david63 »

              oldbluefox wrote: 07 Dec 2018, 12:48
              The problem we have at the moment is the mess we have all been left in. Once the result of the referendum was known we should have negotiated as a united country. Instead we opened up divisions within our country with everybody wanting their own say which must have been succour to the EU. We were not united at all and now we pay the price.
              With that wonderful ability called hindsight we should have negotiated the exit agreement and then had the referendum - "Do you want to leave on this deal or do you want to stay". Probably would not have stopped all the arguments and bickering but at least people would not be able to turn round and say, or be accused, that they did not know what they were voting for.

              Yes I know that the EU would not start negotiating until we had triggered Article 50


              Ray Scully
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by Ray Scully »

              oldbluefox wrote: 07 Dec 2018, 12:48
              The problem we have at the moment is the mess we have all been left in. Once the result of the referendum was known we should have negotiated as a united country. Instead we opened up divisions within our country with everybody wanting their own say which must have been succour to the EU. We were not united at all and now we pay the price.

              Nowt wrong with Johnny Foreigner Ray. Even Johnny Foreigner is not happy with the EU.
              OBF I have just had to have a lie down after finding myself in agreement with your post ;-) I agree we should have adopted a united position, but with what chance, when Corbyn's lefties agenda is getting into power at any cost, and the right wing idiots of the ERG who want to 'take back power' albeit to a self serving minority. We have all been badly let down by our Politicians.

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              oldbluefox
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by oldbluefox »

              david63 wrote: 07 Dec 2018, 13:50
              oldbluefox wrote: 07 Dec 2018, 12:48
              The problem we have at the moment is the mess we have all been left in. Once the result of the referendum was known we should have negotiated as a united country. Instead we opened up divisions within our country with everybody wanting their own say which must have been succour to the EU. We were not united at all and now we pay the price.
              With that wonderful ability called hindsight we should have negotiated the exit agreement and then had the referendum - "Do you want to leave on this deal or do you want to stay". Probably would not have stopped all the arguments and bickering but at least people would not be able to turn round and say, or be accused, that they did not know what they were voting for.

              Yes I know that the EU would not start negotiating until we had triggered Article 50
              I love the humour, or is it cynicism? :lol:
              I was taught to be cautious

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              oldbluefox
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by oldbluefox »

              Ray Scully wrote: 07 Dec 2018, 14:04
              oldbluefox wrote: 07 Dec 2018, 12:48
              The problem we have at the moment is the mess we have all been left in. Once the result of the referendum was known we should have negotiated as a united country. Instead we opened up divisions within our country with everybody wanting their own say which must have been succour to the EU. We were not united at all and now we pay the price.

              Nowt wrong with Johnny Foreigner Ray. Even Johnny Foreigner is not happy with the EU.
              OBF I have just had to have a lie down after finding myself in agreement with your post ;-) I agree we should have adopted a united position, but with what chance, when Corbyn's lefties agenda is getting into power at any cost, and the right wing idiots of the ERG who want to 'take back power' albeit to a self serving minority. We have all been badly let down by our Politicians.
              Well, slap me backwards with a kipper!!! The way this has been handled has been shambolic and the politicians are to blame.........but they never wanted to leave did they? The shambles is all of their own making.
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              oldbluefox
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by oldbluefox »

              Quizzical Bob wrote: 07 Dec 2018, 13:01
              As longs as you keep up with this pretence that 'They need us more than we need them' then you will never be convinced.
              It seems we are not alone in thinking this QB.

              https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmauldi ... df15c92187
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              barney
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by barney »

              What would have been nice Ray, is for the losing side of the argument to accept the legitimate vote.
              Many didn't and to be honest, still don't.

              Yeah but.
              No but.
              It was the Russians.
              Data breaches.
              Leaves big bus lied.
              Boris lied.
              Farage lied.
              It wasn't fair.
              They spent too much.
              How could this have happened when Cameron said it was a done deal.?
              Why didn't they believe Project fear?

              Just imagine, in a Brexit Utopia, the losing side had said, fair enough, now let's all concentrate on getting the best for our country.

              Let's not make out this division is on party grounds.
              Millions of Labour voters voted for Brexit, as did millions of Tory.
              That is why old Jezza has sat firmly on the fence since the result.
              Why?
              Because he really does believe in leaving the EU.

              Even now, after all this time, the remain zealots cannot give many reason to convince anyone as to why it would be better long term to remain.
              The only argument is that it will be worse if we leave.
              So, no positives about staying in, as per the pre-referendum vote.
              Just project Armageddon, should we leave.

              That's not good enough for me.
              After 40+ years of membership, there should be dozens of reason why the UK would benefit from continued membership.

              I donated £25 today to Leave EU to help them fight the predicted next referendum.

              I've seen a draft of the new referendum question and it has three options.
              Q1 Remain in the EU
              Q2 Remain in the EU
              Q3 Remain in the EU

              If, as predicted, Parliament wishes to put this question back to the people, they may be surprised again when the result is pretty much the same as the previous time.
              Last edited by barney on 07 Dec 2018, 14:59, edited 2 times in total.
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              oldbluefox
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by oldbluefox »

              Well done barney!!! :clap:
              "After 40+ years of membership, there should be dozens of reason why the UK would benefit from continued membership". We should be falling over ourselves to Remain, but people are vehemently opposed.
              Now what happened to "Your decision, not politicians, not Parliament, just you". (David Cameron)
              Last edited by oldbluefox on 07 Dec 2018, 15:13, edited 2 times in total.
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              Ray Scully
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by Ray Scully »

              oldbluefox wrote: 07 Dec 2018, 15:06
              Well done barney!!! :clap:
              "After 40+ years of membership, there should be dozens of reason why the UK would benefit from continued membership". We should be falling over ourselves to Remain, but people are vehemently opposed.
              Now what happened to "Your decision, not politicians, not Parliament, just you". (David Cameron)


              Barney, what are you going to do with your time when this is all over ;-)

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              barney
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by barney »

              To back up your previous statement Foxy about the EU countries needing continued access to our market, which Jack shot down in flames, here are the up to date facts.
              73% of the total UK imports from the EU come from just seven countries.
              They are in descending order
              Germany
              Spain
              Belgium
              Netherlands
              Poland
              Italy
              Portugal

              The remaining 20 member states stats are slightly irrelevant in terms of import/export.
              We have a trading deficit with all but six EU member states.
              In my book, that would make us a pretty important customer to many European businesses.

              The trading deficit with Germany alone is £21 billion.
              The total for goods is around the £90 billion mark.

              And the some half-wit is trying to compare us to Norway as if that deal would cut it for the UK.

              The absolute stupidity of some of our elected officials take my breath away.

              That is why I still say the best option is to say to the EU, thanks but no thanks, we'll just leave next year without transition and the start speaking about a trade deal if they wish to do one.
              In the meantime, please treat us like any other third country and if you can afford it, build a bridge between Ireland and the continental mainland.
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              Manoverboard
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by Manoverboard »

              Just as I was warming to a ' No Deal ' it seems that there could be … some sort of queue at Dover :o

              a) a 6 month queue at Dover
              b) a queue for 6 months
              c) 6 months of queueing at Dover

              What shall I do, I know it'll have to be ' don't go to Dover ' … seemples :wave:




              .
              Last edited by Manoverboard on 07 Dec 2018, 16:02, edited 1 time in total.
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              oldbluefox
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by oldbluefox »

              I'm setting off now to get my place ;)
              I was taught to be cautious

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              towny44
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by towny44 »

              Manoverboard wrote: 07 Dec 2018, 16:01
              Just as I was warming to a ' No Deal ' it seems that there could be … some sort of queue at Dover :o

              a) a 6 month queue at Dover
              b) a queue for 6 months
              c) 6 months of queueing at Dover

              What shall I do, I know it'll have to be ' don't go to Dover ' … seemples :wave:
              After reading the BBC article about the perils of a no deal I am surprisingly less concerned than I had recently become which, since it is a BBC report is rather heartening.
              It does suggest there will be quite a bit of infrastructure investment needed at our ports, but this will help the economy, and should be easily financed due to our saving of £39bn, and it will be a very good long term investment as we grow our ROW trade.
              If 6 months of delays at the channel ports is a worst case scenario, then on the basis of recent poor forecasting I am reasonably confident that it will be much less. So maybe I am moving towards Barney's viewpoint after all.
              John

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              gfwgfw
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by gfwgfw »

              What a mucking fuddle

              . . . but sure it will be alright on the night

              Lubooo all :wave:
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              Mervyn and Trish
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by Mervyn and Trish »

              oldbluefox wrote: 07 Dec 2018, 14:45
              Quizzical Bob wrote: 07 Dec 2018, 13:01
              As longs as you keep up with this pretence that 'They need us more than we need them' then you will never be convinced.
              It seems we are not alone in thinking this QB.

              https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmauldi ... df15c92187
              So no problem for the EU at all then! :sarcasm:

              What seems forgotten in the EU don't care argument is that although the trade is a smaller percentage for them, they have a trade surplus with us. If trade stopped altogther in March it would be chaos. But we'd be financially better off.

              As others have said we'd have to buy Nissans and Toyotas instead of BMWs and Mercedes, and the same applies in other sectors. Industry would have to adapt to producing what we needed, rather than what Europe wanted. But we all know it won't come to that because business, not the politicians, won't let it. BMW etc. don't care about the EU's principles. They care about the bottom line.

              It also won't come to that because as I've said in my earlier post the bottom line is TM will lose, Corbyn will be in power, we'll stay in the EU and the riot police and troops will be on the streets. I wonder how industry will like that?
              Last edited by Mervyn and Trish on 07 Dec 2018, 20:00, edited 3 times in total.

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              Onelife
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by Onelife »

              There choice, our future.

              Theresa resigns?
              Theresa goes back to Brussels asking for more please?
              Three weeks of arguing ensues
              We go back to Brussels and beg for an extention to A50
              Davis wants Canada+
              Boris wants Canada+++
              Moggie wants out..whatever the cost.
              Some remainers want a soft Norwegian.
              Some remainer still haven't a clue what they want
              Some remainers and some leavers want a people's vote
              ĎUP will insist on a get out clause
              Corbyn can't make his mind up if he want in or out but will settle for both if he gets a General election.
              Etc
              Etc

              VOTE MAY Tuesday.....or we get one of the above....but' remember, they have to agree to agree...or maybe not?!!!

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              oldbluefox
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by oldbluefox »

              Onelife wrote: 07 Dec 2018, 23:08
              There choice, our future.

              Theresa resigns?
              Theresa goes back to Brussels asking for more please?
              Three weeks of arguing ensues
              We go back to Brussels and beg for an extention to A50
              Davis wants Canada+
              Boris wants Canada+++
              Moggie wants out..whatever the cost.
              Some remainers want a soft Norwegian.
              Some remainer still haven't a clue what they want
              Some remainers and some leavers want a people's vote
              ĎUP will insist on a get out clause
              Corbyn can't make his mind up if he want in or out but will settle for both if he gets a General election.
              Etc
              Etc

              VOTE MAY Tuesday.....or we get one of the above....but' remember, they have to agree to agree...or maybe not?!!!
              You been talking to Stephen again??!!! :lol:
              I was taught to be cautious


              Ray Scully
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by Ray Scully »

              Mervyn and Trish wrote: 07 Dec 2018, 19:57
              [

              It also won't come to that because as I've said in my earlier post the bottom line is TM will lose, Corbyn will be in power, we'll stay in the EU and the riot police and troops will be on the streets. I wonder how industry will like that?
              My understanding of the demographics of those that voted to leave is that generally, they are not the kind of people who would wish to leave their comfortable homes to engage in such an activity. However should SOME the apocalyptical pronouncements of a no deal come to pass, then riots will be a distinct possibility, you can also couple this with the death of the Tory party.


              anniec
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              Re: Brexit

              Unread post by anniec »

              Manoverboard wrote: 07 Dec 2018, 16:01
              Just as I was warming to a ' No Deal ' it seems that there could be … some sort of queue at Dover :o

              a) a 6 month queue at Dover
              b) a queue for 6 months
              c) 6 months of queueing at Dover

              What shall I do, I know it'll have to be ' don't go to Dover ' … seemples :wave:
              The Chief Executive Officer of the UK Major Ports Group doesn't seem too concerned: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/201 ... -whatever/

              I hope I'm right in assuming he knows more than most.

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