Brexit

[Onelife]

When reading throught the EU 'no deal' plan it kinda brings it home to you that come March we'll be left with a choice of falling off a cliff edge.... sliding down a gentle slope (until we come back up on the other side) or sucking up to the EU ...l just hope MP's realise that falling off a cliff edge will be far more damaging than sliding down a gentle slope, as for doing a belly crawl back into the arms of the EU, this would break our countries spirt and it's trust in democracy.

Some MP's have entrenched themselves into the falsehood that things will turn out ok if they stick to their guns....They should be reminded that they voted to leave the EU and as there are only two options open for them to do this they should get behind Theresa's plan and not shoot themselves or our country in the foot...The wounds of which would take a very long time to heal.

[Ray Scully]

The options given at the referendum were in or out. If we proceed down one of those paths around half the country will be happy. Accept TM's compromise no one will be happy.

[towny44]

The options given at the referendum were in or out. If we proceed down one of those paths around half the country will be happy. Accept TM's compromise no one will be happy.

Everyone keeps saying that, but only if we have to implement the backstop, from my reading of the situation it gives me most of what I voted for. Of course until the trade deal is agreed we won't know how inferior to full membership that is, and more importantly what impact, if indeed any, it has on our economy.
So whilst TM's deal is not quite all we wanted it's probably the best anyone could have negotiated.
Incidentally the referendum was do you want to remain in the EU or leave, we always new that article 50 would require some hard bargaining.

[Onelife]

The options given at the referendum were in or out. If we proceed down one of those paths around half the country will be happy. Accept TM's compromise no one will be happy.

Everyone keeps saying that, but only if we have to implement the backstop, from my reading of the situation it gives me most of what I voted for. Of course until the trade deal is agreed we won't know how inferior to full membership that is, and more importantly what impact, if indeed any, it has on our economy.
So whilst TM's deal is not quite all we wanted it's probably the best anyone could have negotiated.
Incidentally the referendum was do you want to remain in the EU or leave, we always new that article 50 would require some hard bargaining.

Not quite 'poster boy status' yet John but you talk a lot of sense in all of your posts

[Mervyn and Trish]

The options given at the referendum were in or out. If we proceed down one of those paths around half the country will be happy. Accept TM's compromise no one will be happy.

Everyone keeps saying that, but only if we have to implement the backstop, from my reading of the situation it gives me most of what I voted for. Of course until the trade deal is agreed we won't know how inferior to full membership that is, and more importantly what impact, if indeed any, it has on our economy.
So whilst TM's deal is not quite all we wanted it's probably the best anyone could have negotiated.
Incidentally the referendum was do you want to remain in the EU or leave, we always new that article 50 would require some hard bargaining.

I agree John. Despite claims that all Leavers were fooled by the bus I wasn't one of them. I knew it would be difficult. I didn't expect £350m for the NHS. In fact I didn't listen to the Leave campaign. It was the Remain campaign that convinced me to vote Leave.

[david63]

it gives me most of what I voted for

No deal, no matter who was doing the negotiating would give everybody everything that they [thought] they wanted as both sides were pole apart from the start.

but only if we have to implement the backstop

And that should be enough to keep focus on the job in hand - get the trade deal and, more importantly, the customs issue resolved.

Also nobody has a clue as to how any deal would be for the country - be it perceived as a "good" deal or a "bad" deal negotiated by the Conservatives, Labour or a cross party committee. Nobody can see into the future (if they could I would have won the Lottery by now!) and there are many other worldwide factors that will affect, not just us but all countries. For instance we do not know what affect our leaving will have on the EU, but one thing that you can be sure of is that it will have an affect.

Just had a thought - if we leave the EU without a deal then, in all probability, the EU will implode and there will be no border issue!

[Jack Staff]

A friends son is due to take his 'A' levels in May. They have received this message..
“Dear Parent/Guardian,
We are currently putting plans together for examinations in Summer 2019 and need to make you aware the Joint Council for Qualifications requires that all students should be available to take exams up to and including Wednesday 26th June 2019.
This date has been set aside as a contingency date should sustained national or local disruption arise during the June 2019 examination series.
Many thanks for your understanding...”

This is how we are treating the future of our country.

Yeah, I know, "contingency" "Project Fear". But remember, we don't have to do this.

[Ray Scully]

But hey guys look on the bright side if all goes ***** up no doubt JRM, the well-heeled and privileged will be OK; will increase their wealth and avoid the disruption

[barney]

What the EU 'no deal' paper shows clearly is that with a deal or without a deal, there will be no 'cliff edge'
They simply cannot afford to let that happen and have thus suggested ways that will bring minimum impact to both EU citizens and UK citizens.
My understanding is that IF there is no agreement, the next day, things will pretty much stay the same while thing are worked out.

OK, UK planes cannot fly between intra EU countries, but then , how many do at the moment.
IAG, who own B.A are registered in Madrid and also own Iberia.
It seems that this one will slip through the net.
Trucks will still move across borders for a limited time.
Finance will stay with pretty much the same rules.
EU countries will not be kicking out UK citizens the day after.

Project Fear with the wheels off

[Ray Scully]

Given the complete c*** up the Politicians have made of this, I have come to the conclusion Barney, that you as the 'most informed person' on this subject should be given the task of sorting it out, but woe betides you if you get it wrong

[oldbluefox]

Given the complete c*** up the Politicians have made of this, I have come to the conclusion Barney, that you as the 'most informed person' on this subject should be given the task of sorting it out, but woe betides you if you get it wrong

Are you trying to upset Jack who is consulted by MPs and represents Remain members of this forum?

[barney]

Given the complete c*** up the Politicians have made of this, I have come to the conclusion Barney, that you as the 'most informed person' on this subject should be given the task of sorting it out, but woe betides you if you get it wrong

Too late for that Ray, I'm afraid.
I spent twenty years working at Thames House so I know first hand how incompetent some politicians are.

Unfortunately, and in my opinion, TM started at the wrong place.
She was so keen on getting a deal that she took her eye off the ball and listened to bad advice.
The negotiation period of two years should have been spent preparing this country for a no agreement Brexit, while negotiating with the EU simultaneously.
Then, should the worst happen (which still may) we would be properly prepared for it.
In my opinion, had we taken this harder line initially, it would have all been signed up and delivered by now.
Her advisors allowed the EU to drive the agenda instead of negotiating as an equal partner.

All water under the bridge now anyway and we have what we have.
Personally I'd say thanks but no thanks, but that is now up to the MPs.

Mrs B and I have decided to start a business project in the new year. ( I'm not as keen on retirement as I thought I'd be)
We are gambling on a Brexit Bounce after it's all decided either way.

I do not have any confidence in the financial forecasters and I predict a bright future for the UK.

Q - If financial forecasters know so much, how come that are not all minted and laying on a beach in the Caymans ?

Ps - carnival shares have taken a bit of a bashing today due to the FED increasing interest rates.
PPS - going to a 1st tonight

[Gill W]

What the EU 'no deal' paper shows clearly is that with a deal or without a deal, there will be no 'cliff edge'
They simply cannot afford to let that happen and have thus suggested ways that will bring minimum impact to both EU citizens and UK citizens.
My understanding is that IF there is no agreement, the next day, things will pretty much stay the same while thing are worked out.

OK, UK planes cannot fly between intra EU countries, but then , how many do at the moment.
IAG, who own B.A are registered in Madrid and also own Iberia.
It seems that this one will slip through the net.
Trucks will still move across borders for a limited time.
Finance will stay with pretty much the same rules.
EU countries will not be kicking out UK citizens the day after.

Project Fear with the wheels off

It confirms that the alleged 'Project Fear' was absolutely correct to flag up all the issues that it did, so that action could be taken to mitigate some of the worst effects of a No Deal Brexit.

It should be noted that the EU have made these proposals to protect the EU27, not to help the UK out of the mess it has made for itself.

Furthermore, the measures are time limited. There's still the potential for lots of little cliff edges, which could still cause issues if the UK doesn't get it's act together in time.

[Onelife]

Hi Barney,

Bilatral talks have been going on for some time in an attempt to lessen the effect of a no deal senario.....but it is my understanding that implementation of these measures are only the bare minimum to get things moving.

Your sentence. ..

" They simply cannot afford to let that happen and have thus suggested ways that will bring minimum impact to both EU citizens and UK citizens"

As opposed to what it actually says....

"The Commission considers it essential and urgent to adopt these measures today to ensure that the necessary contingency measures can enter into application on 30 March 2019 in order to limit the most significant damage caused by a "no-deal" scenario in these areas"

The above probably doesn't suggest a cliff edge senario but perhaps more of a landslide, nevertheless one should expect significant disruption should a no deal be the outcome.

That being said the EU paper dose give us a kinda no deal transition period and l would welcome that should parliament vote against the sensible option.

My concern would be that should TM's plan be turned down there would be a scramble to put another plan on the table which could lead to a softer Brexit or even worse another referendum.....and being a gambling man l wouldn't bet against that happening.

Keith

[Mervyn and Trish]

It confirms that the alleged 'Project Fear' was absolutely correct to flag up all the issues that it did, so that action could be taken to mitigate some of the worst effects of a No Deal Brexit.

Sorry Gill but that doesn't stack up.

Project Fear said these things will happen if we vote to Leave. No ifs. No buts.

It didn't say these things could happen but we have plans to mitigate against them.

It's like Carnage stating the economy would crash and interest rates would go up, and then putting them down and saying he'd done that so the economy didn't crash. So both predicted things didn't happen because he'd taken the action he'd no doubt always planned but didn't mention when issuing warnings.

And Ozzy saying he'd have an immediate emergency budget if we voted leave and then not doing it. Again predicting as inevitable something which was in his power not to do.

At best it's smoke and mirrors.

[Gill W]

Sorry Melvyn, what you’re saying doesn’t stack up.

If something bad is forecast, you do something to stop the bad thing happening and change the outcome.

You don’t do nothing in order to make the prophecy come true.

Nobody would be that daft

[Ray Scully]

PPS - going to a 1st tonight
[/quote]

Barney
Are you participating?

[Onelife]

Hi all,

I came across this article by Sir Ivan Roger... for those who have the stamina it's well worth a read....l mean really, really worth a read

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13 ... -on-brexit

[Ray Scully]

Hi all,

I came across this article by Sir Ivan Roger... for those who have the stamina it's well worth a read....l mean really, really worth a read

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13 ... -on-brexit

FRIGHTENING

[Onelife]

Don't have nightmares Ray.......He has since painted a more optimistic picture of Brexit.

[towny44]

Hi all,

I came across this article by Sir Ivan Roger... for those who have the stamina it's well worth a read....l mean really, really worth a read

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13 ... -on-brexit

FRIGHTENING

Isn't he the guy that TM sacked because she considered him to be too much of a Europhile to be involved in the Brexit negotiations?.......just saying

[Onelife]

Hi all,

I came across this article by Sir Ivan Roger... for those who have the stamina it's well worth a read....l mean really, really worth a read

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13 ... -on-brexit

FRIGHTENING

Isn't he the guy that TM sacked because she considered him to be too much of a Europhile to be involved in the Brexit negotiations?.......just saying

He resigned but was probably encouraged to do so... He did write a damming resignation letter but when questioned in front of the select committee he backtracked and painted a more positive picture of Brexit. .....l actually got it the wrong way round as the link l posted wax after his appointment with the select committee so his views in the link are current.

It sounds like he blows hot and cold depending on which side of the bed he gets out......that being said he is probably better informed than most to make those kind of statements........hopefully if things proceed to the next stage it should be a case of forewarned is forearmed .

[Stephen]

48137683_10217298147546994_5428234450439766016_n.jpg

[barney]

Nick Ferrari summed up the entire thing on The Pledge
I quote
Brexit won't be half as good as the Leavers think .. and
Not half as bad as the Remainers think.

A bit of common sense ?

Edit … PS - Ray, no as a guest. Great, raucous evening

[CaroleF]

What no-one has explained is that if there's a second referendum - God forbid, we live in a democracy I thought - what happens if the result is exactly the same, or even if the Leavers have a bigger majority? Do we have to have a third, fourth etc?

Carole