Brexit

[barney]

All across Europe, everything is wonderful.
Yellow Vests - arh! just ignore them
AFD - they'll go away
National Rally - well even Jupiter is preferable to them
Youth unemployment in the Med - they'll get over it
Migrant crisis - what crisis, we'll all take our fair share
Greek and Italian financial crisis - just ignore it

Watch May's European Parliament Elections.
UKIP will look like lapdogs compared to some of the eastern Europeans that are standing.

So your solution is to appease the fascists and runaway.

Sorry Barney, that is not the British way.

Well, fortunately we all know that Jack.
That's why our forefathers went to war.


The point is, you are attempting to make out that everything is wonderful in Europe and that the UK is a basket case and it's simply not true.
Brexit aside, the UK is the most moderate of European countries.
Why do you think that 3 million have made their homes here and not some other country?
It is because we do not have political extremes of any note.
Can you imagine the National Front being the second largest party in the UK?
Nope, I thought not.
I've seen European paper reports calling Brexiteers far right and nothing could be further from the truth.
Is it far right to want to be an independent, self governing country.
Is it far right to want to take control of your own policies, be it trade or immigration?
Is it far right to want to make your own laws and be able to vote out those that you are not happy with?

If all of that is far right, then most of the world is far right because that is the normal situation in the world.
It is the political institution of the EU that is out of step.

It's simply not normal for an independent country to sign over it's policy making decisions to beauracrats in a foreign country.
We have sleep walked into a political union that most didn't ask for or want.
This is our chance to get out and if our politicians fail, they will never be forgiven by millions and will pay the price for it.

I guess you may be older then me and maybe voted in the referendum in the 70's to remain in.
Did anybody know that they were voting to join a political union at the time?
I doubt it but someone may be able to educate me on such matters.
I know my own parents didn't realise.
They thought that they voted on The Common Market, a trade body.

Had the EU remained as it was intended, the need to leave would never have arisn.
Their own lust for power has caused this, not only here but right across Europe.
It's simply not fit for purpose.

[Gill W]

I'd like to ask a question of the 'Willo the People' brigade and the 'there's been a vote, and that's that' club.

What happens if we leave the EU on 29th March and the dire predictions end up being correct. Kent turns into a lorry park, the supply lines break down, the food that we have doesn't get to the shops, fresh produce rots in the lorries before it gets anywhere at all, manufacturers can't produce their goods because they can't get their components, and people actually die (per Matt Hancock) as life saving drugs are tied up in all the chaos.

How would you feel then?

[barney]

The EU are very well known for being negotiable, when necessary.
Their hard and fast rules seem quite flexible, especially when money is involved.
They know full well that standard WTO terms will be an absolute disaster for the EU given that Germany appears to be entering recession and if they do, other Euro countries will no doubt follow.

They've been adamant since November, that there's no further negotiations. I realise that it feels better to believe they will change their stance, but the changes of this are negligible. They'd look bigger idiots than us if they suddenly did an about turn.

If WTO terms is a disaster for the EU, then it follows that you acknowledge that WTO terms only are an even bigger disaster for us, as we are the ones that are walking away from the huge trading block of the EU, with nothing agreed (not to mention all the other agreements and memberships we're ripping up). No advanced economy trades on WTO terms alone. If it was really that good, everyone would be doing it.

With reference to another referendum Gill, there is no firm evidence that a different result from the original would be achieved.
All pollls show that, given the pollsters margin for error.
The last Poll of Polls that I looked at showed 53% Remain -47% Leave
That is how it was the day before the original referendum on leaving the EU.
People now know so much more about how the EU works and how undemocratic it actually is.
The leave result could well be bigger next time.

People have seen the absolute chaos that has unfolded in the last two and a half years and have seen that we are in contingency planning for a disaster.

Maybe they don't want that. Maybe after all that, 'the people' want to stay. We'll never know unless they are asked - but the thought of asking seems to make some people angry. It seems, in the minds of some, including people on this forum, that Willo The People was frozen in 2016, and can never change with events as they unfold.

Gill, many countries are in a trade bloc without needing to be politically alligned
Had we remained in the EU trade bloc, none of these problems would have arisen.
Seems weird that all remainers talk about is trade when the real issue is sovereignty.

You may well be correct and there will be another referendum on this issue.
I don't know.
But, don't be too surprised if the result once again doesn't go the way that the establishment want it to.

[barney]

I'd like to ask a question of the 'Willo the People' brigade and the 'there's been a vote, and that's that' club.

What happens if we leave the EU on 29th March and the dire predictions end up being correct. Kent turns into a lorry park, the supply lines break down, the food that we have doesn't get to the shops, fresh produce rots in the lorries before it gets anywhere at all, manufacturers can't produce their goods because they can't get their components, and people actually die (per Matt Hancock) as life saving drugs are tied up in all the chaos.

How would you feel then?

Let me ask you a serious question Gill.
Why would the UK stop trucks entering the UK full of essential supplies?
It simply wouldn't, so that answers that one.

As for trucks backing up in Kent.
Well, that's down to the French and we have no control over that, just as we haven't when it's happened in the past (inside the EU)

[towny44]

Well despite being away for nearly 2 weeks I see you are no nearer agreement about brexit on here than they are in Parliament, do let me know if things change.

[Jack Staff]

Well despite being away for nearly 2 weeks I see you are no nearer agreement about brexit on here than they are in Parliament, do let me know if things change.

About 7pm I believe.

[Gill W]

Gill, many countries are in a trade bloc without needing to be politically alligned
Had we remained in the EU trade bloc, none of these problems would have arisen.
Seems weird that all remainers talk about is trade when the real issue is sovereignty.

You may well be correct and there will be another referendum on this issue.
I don't know.
But, don't be too surprised if the result once again doesn't go the way that the establishment want it to.

I speak about lots of things, not just trade. Trade was mentioned in my post, as it was you who mentioned the WTO in the first place.

[Gill W]

Well despite being away for nearly 2 weeks I see you are no nearer agreement about brexit on here than they are in Parliament, do let me know if things change.

Hello Towny, welcome home. You could have been away for two and a half years and nothing would change.

[Gill W]

I'd like to ask a question of the 'Willo the People' brigade and the 'there's been a vote, and that's that' club.

What happens if we leave the EU on 29th March and the dire predictions end up being correct. Kent turns into a lorry park, the supply lines break down, the food that we have doesn't get to the shops, fresh produce rots in the lorries before it gets anywhere at all, manufacturers can't produce their goods because they can't get their components, and people actually die (per Matt Hancock) as life saving drugs are tied up in all the chaos.

How would you feel then?

Let me ask you a serious question Gill.
Why would the UK stop trucks entering the UK full of essential supplies?
It simply wouldn't, so that answers that one.

As for trucks backing up in Kent.
Well, that's down to the French and we have no control over that, just as we haven't when it's happened in the past (inside the EU)

The need for customs checks could slow everything up, lorries back up, whole thing grinds to a halt. Lorries with essential supplies coming in get caught up in gridlock, don't get to where they should be.

However, my question wasn't about logistics, it was how you would feel if the worst case scenario actually happened.

[towny44]

Well despite being away for nearly 2 weeks I see you are no nearer agreement about brexit on here than they are in Parliament, do let me know if things change.

Hello Towny, welcome home. You could have been away for two and a half years and nothing would change.

I am still away sunbathing on St Maarten promenade.

[barney]

I'd like to ask a question of the 'Willo the People' brigade and the 'there's been a vote, and that's that' club.

What happens if we leave the EU on 29th March and the dire predictions end up being correct. Kent turns into a lorry park, the supply lines break down, the food that we have doesn't get to the shops, fresh produce rots in the lorries before it gets anywhere at all, manufacturers can't produce their goods because they can't get their components, and people actually die (per Matt Hancock) as life saving drugs are tied up in all the chaos.

How would you feel then?

Let me ask you a serious question Gill.
Why would the UK stop trucks entering the UK full of essential supplies?
It simply wouldn't, so that answers that one.

As for trucks backing up in Kent.
Well, that's down to the French and we have no control over that, just as we haven't when it's happened in the past (inside the EU)

The need for customs checks could slow everything up, lorries back up, whole thing grinds to a halt. Lorries with essential supplies coming in get caught up in gridlock, don't get to where they should be.

However, my question wasn't about logistics, it was how you would feel if the worst case scenario actually happened.

If your scenario happened, the blame would lie firmly at the feet of the anti-democrats who have done everything possible to make sure that Brexit is as difficult as possible.
It is not the fault of those who voted to leave, it's the fault of those who failed to carry out the instruction.

[Jack Staff]

If your scenario happened, the blame would lie firmly at the feet of the anti-democrats who have done everything possible to make sure that Brexit is as difficult as possible.
It is not the fault of those who voted to leave, it's the fault of those who failed to carry out the instruction.

"It wasn't me, it was the other boys...."

Come on Barney, be proud of what you have done.

[Gill W]

Well despite being away for nearly 2 weeks I see you are no nearer agreement about brexit on here than they are in Parliament, do let me know if things change.

Hello Towny, welcome home. You could have been away for two and a half years and nothing would change.

I am still away sunbathing on St Maarten promenade.

Enjoy it while you can. Brexit will still be here when you get home

[Gill W]

Let me ask you a serious question Gill.
Why would the UK stop trucks entering the UK full of essential supplies?
It simply wouldn't, so that answers that one.

As for trucks backing up in Kent.
Well, that's down to the French and we have no control over that, just as we haven't when it's happened in the past (inside the EU)

The need for customs checks could slow everything up, lorries back up, whole thing grinds to a halt. Lorries with essential supplies coming in get caught up in gridlock, don't get to where they should be.

However, my question wasn't about logistics, it was how you would feel if the worst case scenario actually happened.

If your scenario happened, the blame would lie firmly at the feet of the anti-democrats who have done everything possible to make sure that Brexit is as difficult as possible.
It is not the fault of those who voted to leave, it's the fault of those who failed to carry out the instruction.

As I’ve said before, Brexit as sold was unachievable. You can’t expect politicians to perform the impossible.

You know it’s not going to be like they promised, yet you are still eager to proceed, regardless.

Therefore, I won’t be expecting any complaints from you after the event, whatever happens.

[barney]

So, basically you are saying it's impossible to leave the EU. What's the point of the leaving mechanism if it cannot be used. I'd dump the withdrawal agreement and leave on 29th March. Save 39 billion and get on with it. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. Remember.

[barney]

After the defeat tonight May must go back to the Commission and tell them that she cannot get the WA through and both sides must now prepare for the UK to leave with no agreement. The ball is then in their court as to whether concessions can be made. The Irish backstop is unacceptable.

[oldbluefox]

The EU are renowned for brinkmanship. If we can't agree a deal then we leave on WTO rules and they get nothing. They don't want a no deal and neither do we but if that is what they leave us with then we do it. Stop faffing about!!!

[Jack Staff]

Dream on lads, Brexit is dead.

[barney]

The very first thing that she must do is to change her advisors. Ollie Robbins should be put out to grass. She should make her own decisions and do some actual leading if she is capable. My opinion is that history will judge her badly.

[barney]

Dream on lads, Brexit is dead.

We'll see in the next few weeks won't we. My gut feeling is that you are wrong. You've been wrong through the whole thing so far. According to you, we should have had another referendum by now.

[Jack Staff]

Dream on lads, Brexit is dead.

We'll see in the next few weeks won't we.

Days, possibly even minutes!

My gut feeling is that you are wrong. You've been wrong through the whole thing so far. According to you, we should have had another referendum by now.

Parliament must simply have a vote to rescind Article 50. The only way to stop this debacle.

[Gill W]

So, basically you are saying it's impossible to leave the EU. What's the point of the leaving mechanism if it cannot be used. I'd dump the withdrawal agreement and leave on 29th March. Save 39 billion and get on with it. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. Remember.

No, I didn't say that at all. I said Brexit as sold by the Leave Campaigns wasn't possible.

based on what you have said through out this process, you are happy to leave without a deal, in full knowledge of all consequences. Yet, in the event of the no deal that you are prefectly happy with, you would blame the 'anti-democrats' for all negative outcomes. Rather contradictory, but I have it clear in my mind now.

[Jack Staff]

Just a flesh wound


Hahahahahaha!


AYES: 202 NOES: 432

[Gill W]

Corbyn didn't have any choice but to table the vote of no confidence. However, I doubt if he's got the numbers to win it.

So no General Election in the offing.

Another referendum a step closer.

[Jack Staff]

Corbyn didn't have any choice but to table the vote of no confidence. However, I doubt if he's got the numbers to win it.

So no General Election in the offing.

Another referendum a step closer.

Corbyn can't win because of the DUP. Best £1 Billion of taxpayers money she has spent.

Stinks.