Brexit

[Jack Staff]

Remain has always been mainstream in my opinion.

You're right. Only one in four people voted for leave in the first place, and now we are seeing massive swings to remain.

The Sun doesn't count in my opinion.

It is being beaten by its' rivals on intellectual content. The Beano is doing quite well I believe.

[Stephen]

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[Ray Scully]

David did my post get 'chopped' or did I mess up posting it?

[Manoverboard]

David did my post get 'chopped' or did I mess up posting it?

When did you post it ?

[Onelife]

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Stephen...The caption should read....The leaves have It.... but l'll have none of it.

[Onelife]

Remain has always been mainstream in my opinion.

You're right. Only one in four people voted for leave in the first place, and now we are seeing massive swings to remain.

The Sun doesn't count in my opinion.

It is being beaten by its' rivals on intellectual content. The Beano is doing quite well I believe.

Jack, l don't know if you are a betting man but if you are and had and based your betting strategy on information gained from opinion polls you would be skint by now.

[Gill W]

Remain has always been mainstream in my opinion. BBC clearly remain. SKY clearly remain. The government at the time of the referendum was remain. The opposition were remain. Bank of England remain. CBI remain. IMF remain. The only mainstream for leave was three papers. The Express. The Mail. The Telegraph. The Mail now has a new editor and has softened as has the Telegraph a bit. The Express has held fast. The Sun doesn't count in my opinion.

You're kidding me. You really believe that? BBC have a bias, but it's not towards remain

[barney]

Remain has always been mainstream in my opinion. BBC clearly remain. SKY clearly remain. The government at the time of the referendum was remain. The opposition were remain. Bank of England remain. CBI remain. IMF remain. The only mainstream for leave was three papers. The Express. The Mail. The Telegraph. The Mail now has a new editor and has softened as has the Telegraph a bit. The Express has held fast. The Sun doesn't count in my opinion.

You're kidding me. You really believe that? BBC have a bias, but it's not towards remain

My perception is somewhat different Gill.
I thought that they clearly lent towards Remain all through the campaign and have continued to do so.
If you can produce evidence to the contrary, I'll gladly concede.

[oldbluefox]

I'd like to believe, that the crowd took on board what Anand Menon said, in his calm measured tones.

I'm glad you mentioned Anand Menon. Did you see what he said about a second referendum? He can't stand the term People's Vote. He spoke eloquently and described it as divisive and would it solve anything? No.
He also said "Parliament has voted for a Brexit outcome, it has effectively voted for no deal"
Neither of those who would favour a second referendum could say what options they would include. Kirsty Blackman, deputy leader of the SNP at Westminster offered Remain or May's deal - clearly lives in cloud cuckoo land and the lady in the audience had no ideas either. Ms Abbott just waffled on about party policy. There was no comedian on the panel this week. I presume with Diane Abbott there they would not need one.

However it seems I agree with you Gill. The crowd did take on board what Anand said and it wasn't particularly good news for the Remainers.

[Onelife]

Remain has always been mainstream in my opinion. BBC clearly remain. SKY clearly remain. The government at the time of the referendum was remain. The opposition were remain. Bank of England remain. CBI remain. IMF remain. The only mainstream for leave was three papers. The Express. The Mail. The Telegraph. The Mail now has a new editor and has softened as has the Telegraph a bit. The Express has held fast. The Sun doesn't count in my opinion.

You're kidding me. You really believe that? BBC have a bias, but it's not towards remain

My perception is somewhat different Gill.
I thought that they clearly lent towards Remain all through the campaign and have continued to do so.
If you can produce evidence to the contrary, I'll gladly concede.

One would have to have a severe sight and hearing impairment not to see the bias remain propaganda Laura kuenesberg keeps spouting out.

[Onelife]

I'd like to believe, that the crowd took on board what Anand Menon said, in his calm measured tones.

I'm glad you mentioned Anand Menon. Did you see what he said about a second referendum? He can't stand the term People's Vote. He spoke eloquently and described it as divisive and would it solve anything? No.
He also said "Parliament has voted for a Brexit outcome, it has effectively voted for no deal"
Neither of those who would favour a second referendum could say what options they would include. Kirsty Blackman, deputy leader of the SNP at Westminster offered Remain or May's deal - clearly lives in cloud cuckoo land and the lady in the audience had no ideas either. Ms Abbott just waffled on about party policy. There was no comedian on the panel this week. I presume with Diane Abbott there they would not need one.

However it seems I agree with you Gill. The crowd did take on board what Anand said and it wasn't particularly good news for the Remainers.

The monotone way in which Diana Abbott delivers her narcoleptic sermons has me in tears of laughter

[towny44]

Keep up the good work guys, maybe one of you will come up with a solution, but the chances of that are worse than Hudds Town's new manager keeping us in the PL.

John, you already know I have the solution.

Yes we know, selective amnesia over the fact we already had a peoples vote.

[david63]

David did my post get 'chopped' or did I mess up posting it?

I would go for the second option

[Gill W]

My perception is somewhat different Gill.
I thought that they clearly lent towards Remain all through the campaign and have continued to do so.
If you can produce evidence to the contrary, I'll gladly concede.

There's no point in producing 'evidence', as you won't accept it - I've got to the point where I can't be bothered to make the effort

One would have to have a severe sight and hearing impairment not to see the bias remain propaganda Laura kuenesberg keeps spouting out.

She's reasonably even handed for the BBC.

I suppose you think John Humphrys is a Remainer

[Gill W]

I'd like to believe, that the crowd took on board what Anand Menon said, in his calm measured tones.

I'm glad you mentioned Anand Menon. Did you see what he said about a second referendum? He can't stand the term People's Vote. He spoke eloquently and described it as divisive and would it solve anything? No.
He also said "Parliament has voted for a Brexit outcome, it has effectively voted for no deal"
Neither of those who would favour a second referendum could say what options they would include. Kirsty Blackman, deputy leader of the SNP at Westminster offered Remain or May's deal - clearly lives in cloud cuckoo land and the lady in the audience had no ideas either. Ms Abbott just waffled on about party policy. There was no comedian on the panel this week. I presume with Diane Abbott there they would not need one.

However it seems I agree with you Gill. The crowd did take on board what Anand said and it wasn't particularly good news for the Remainers.

My point was about what happens afterwards - the audience clearly forgot what he said about that, if they are still cheering for Brexit. My point was that Leavers have one focus - that is to leave. They seem to have no comprehension or interest in what happens afterwards. The few that may have thought about it, like those on this forum, don't seem to care too much about anything negative that may happen afterwards. As Barney said yesterday, 'out at any cost'. (Although I'm hoping that was the Sancerre talking)

I don't like the term Peoples Vote either. It makes it sound as if something other than people voted last time. I prefer the term second referendum. None of these panelists want to commit themselves to anything, so they are never going to give a straight answer.

Leavers on this forum have an aversion to opinion polls. Why should a group of random people from Derby by of any more significance than opinion polls? Unless they are saying something you want to hear, of course!

[oldbluefox]

When I voted in 2016 I was quite prepared for an orderly departure from Brexit with a deal. However my stance has since hardened as a consequence of the shenanigans of parliament, the behaviour of the EU negotiators, the ineptitude of Theresa May's negotiating and the arrogance coming from the Remain side who have put every obstacle in the way. I now look forward to leaving the EU and negotiating a deal thereafter, no deal and no £39bn.
I have faith in the UK and don't need to hold on to the EU's apron strings. Let us form our own trade deals and keep the tariffs which are paid to us as opposed to the EU creaming off 80% as at present.
Brexiters know there will be disruption but that is the price we pay to be rid of this failed protectionist racket.

[barney]

Both side clearly have their fingers in their ears at the moment, and ultimately, something has to give.

Even Abbott conceded that should there be another referendum, the result would most likely be the same or a very narrow call not to leave, and that would resolve nothing.

Human nature being what it is, we are inclined to take on board what we want to hear and ignore what we don't.

look at Jack Staff.
He cannot reconcile that fact that his team lost the vote and has stated that he will never accept leaving.
So, when meeting his maker, he will probably still insist that we are in the EU.
Facts seem to make little difference.

The fact that the Government called the referendum, after Parliament voted massively to allow it.
The fact that the majority voted to leave
The fact that Parliament voted massively to invoke Article 50 to start the mechanism of leaving.
I happily concede the fact that May has made a total pigs ear of it all, but that doesn't over ride the other facts.

To live in denial of the facts smacks of delusion.

[Ray Scully]

Both side clearly have their fingers in their ears at the moment, and ultimately, something has to give.

Even Abbott conceded that should there be another referendum, the result would most likely be the same or a very narrow call not to leave, and that would resolve nothing.

Human nature being what it is, we are inclined to take on board what we want to hear and ignore what we don't.

look at Jack Staff.
He cannot reconcile that fact that his team lost the vote and has stated that he will never accept leaving.
So, when meeting his maker, he will probably still insist that we are in the EU.
Facts seem to make little difference.

The fact that the Government called the referendum, after Parliament voted massively to allow it.
The fact that the majority voted to leave
The fact that Parliament voted massively to invoke Article 50 to start the mechanism of leaving.
I happily concede the fact that May has made a total pigs ear of it all, but that doesn't over ride the other facts.

To live in denial of the facts smacks of delusion.

Well, Barney, With such entrenched views I suppose it is now all about winners and losers, my problem is who they will be.

[oldbluefox]

Some of the reasons for wanting to remain in the EU make my blood boil, amongst them:
I have a holiday home in France
My daughter wants to live in Germany
What about my holidays?
I will need a Green Card to drive in Europe (Years ago we had Green Cards and it wasn't a problem! Get a life!)
I am studying in UK and my parents live in Spain...... (No idea what his problem is)
etc. etc.

None of these are about our future as a trading nation or our prosperity in years to come, merely self interest.

And finally, we are told we need a second referendum because some people were too young to vote in 2016 but they will be able to vote now. But if we have the desired second referendum will there not be others who will be too young to vote or am I missing something here?

[Onelife]

I'd like to believe, that the crowd took on board what Anand Menon said, in his calm measured tones.

I'm glad you mentioned Anand Menon. Did you see what he said about a second referendum? He can't stand the term People's Vote. He spoke eloquently and described it as divisive and would it solve anything? No.
He also said "Parliament has voted for a Brexit outcome, it has effectively voted for no deal"
Neither of those who would favour a second referendum could say what options they would include. Kirsty Blackman, deputy leader of the SNP at Westminster offered Remain or May's deal - clearly lives in cloud cuckoo land and the lady in the audience had no ideas either. Ms Abbott just waffled on about party policy. There was no comedian on the panel this week. I presume with Diane Abbott there they would not need one.

However it seems I agree with you Gill. The crowd did take on board what Anand said and it wasn't particularly good news for the Remainers.

My point was about what happens afterwards - the audience clearly forgot what he said about that, if they are still cheering for Brexit. My point was that Leavers have one focus - that is to leave. They seem to have no comprehension or interest in what happens afterwards. The few that may have thought about it, like those on this forum, don't seem to care too much about anything negative that may happen afterwards. As Barney said yesterday, 'out at any cost'. (Although I'm hoping that was the Sancerre talking)

I don't like the term Peoples Vote either. It makes it sound as if something other than people voted last time. I prefer the term second referendum. None of these panelists want to commit themselves to anything, so they are never going to give a straight answer.

Leavers on this forum have an aversion to opinion polls. Why should a group of random people from Derby by of any more significance than opinion polls? Unless they are saying something you want to hear, of course!

Gill...Of the six or seven who regularly post on this topic l can think of at least two who have supported a more sensible/less disruptive approach for us leaving the EU.

You just need to get your head around the fact that we are leaving.

[oldbluefox]

You being one Keefy. Who's the other?

[Onelife]

You being one Keefy. Who's the other?

I'll have to get to you on that one foxy

[Jack Staff]

look at Jack Staff.
He cannot reconcile that fact that his team lost the vote and has stated that he will never accept leaving.
So, when meeting his maker, he will probably still insist that we are in the EU.
Facts seem to make little difference.

The fact that the Government called the referendum, after Parliament voted massively to allow it.
The fact that the majority voted to leave
The fact that Parliament voted massively to invoke Article 50 to start the mechanism of leaving.
I happily concede the fact that May has made a total pigs ear of it all, but that doesn't over ride the other facts.

To live in denial of the facts smacks of delusion.

Ooooh, look at me!
"My 'team' lost". No, the country lost. Never accepting is my right. That is called democracy, while we still have it.
I'm sure God will insist we are in the EU, because if we do ever leave I will do my utmost to still be alive to see us rejoin. I do hope we can celebrate that day together on this forum.
I do not deny your facts, so no delusion.

How about some other facts.
The vote was bought buy foreign money.
The vote was illegal.
The illegal vote has not been annulled simply because it was only advisory.
The result is being forced on us because the PM said he would. The new PM said she would provide strong and stable government.
The 'will of the people' is remain.

[oldbluefox]

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[Ray Scully]

Some of the reasons for wanting to remain in the EU make my blood boil, amongst them:
I have a holiday home in France
My daughter wants to live in Germany
What about my holidays?
I will need a Green Card to drive in Europe (Years ago we had Green Cards and it wasn't a problem! Get a life!)
I am studying in UK and my parents live in Spain...... (No idea what his problem is)
etc. etc.

A tad mean spirited OBF, surely people have a right to such views if there could be tangible consequences which will impact their lives.
All you guys are offering is an illusionary future as a trading nation and prosperity in years to come.