Brexit

[Gill W]

There's about 3 or 4 Remainers on here that post.

As far as I've seen, no Remainers are federalists...

I agree with you Gill. But this is a bit pot/kettle/black. A few posts back you were suggesting that a lot of Brexit is about wanting to go back to the days of the Empire. I certainly don't want to be in charge of half the world and I've seen no indication from the other pro-Brexit posters on here that they do either. I just want to be in charge of our own country.

So sure. We should not assume what's in the minds of Remainers, but you should be careful of being guilty of the same thing.

My biggest gripe with the whole Remain stance is just that. There is a constant assumption they know why we voted the way we did and they are usually wrong. In fact if you look at Jack's post above he does it again.

It was Call Me Dave misjudging the Leave mindset that got us into this mess by failing to explain to the EU how serious we were and then running a disastrously flawed Remain campaign that utterly failed to address Leave concerns. As I've repeated before I really wanted to be convinced to vote Remain and he blew it.

..... and none have made a point of discussing youth employment in the Med.

No of course they haven't. Because it is one of the biggest single failings of the EU and is best swept under the carpet in trying to convince us how wonderful it is.

When I said about 'Empire' it was a generalisation - and not about people on this forum. Just a general perception that I've observed, that SOME Brexiters seem to want to some golden point in the past (which probably never existed)

I'm honestly not sure it's possible to know why anybody else voted that way they did. Brexit seems to mean different things to different people, and varies depending on what day of the week it is.

If Youth unemployment in the Med is such a failure why aren't leave campaigners trumpeting about it? I'll be honest, the only place I've seen it made an issue of is here on this forum

[Mervyn and Trish]

I don't know why you include Corbyn in the role of 'saboteur'.

How about passing a motion at the Labour party conference to reject the deal before anyone knew what the deal was?

Whatever may or may not have happened at the conference - I'm convinced that Corbyn himself is a Leaver

Me too. But he puts that after securing power for his Marxist party. So he'll sabotage anything to secure that. If TM came back with a free trade deal with no strings he'd still vote against it, even if he then pursued the same deal once he had a foot in number 10.

[Mervyn and Trish]

When I said about 'Empire' it was a generalisation

I accept that. But the point I make is generalisations are dangerous from both sides and should be avoided by both sides, not just one.

If Youth unemployment in the Med is such a failure why aren't leave campaigners trumpeting about it? I'll be honest, the only place I've seen it made an issue of is here on this forum

Does it really need pointing out as a failure? Come on, you travel. You must have seen it for yourself. We certainly have. You surely don't need anyone to trumpet it. Leavers probably aren't shouting about it because us leaving won't change it. Only Italy, Greece, Spain and Portugal leaving might. But the point remains that it's hardly a triumph of policy for the glorious all-for-one and one-for-all EU.

[Jack Staff]

My biggest gripe with the whole Remain stance is just that. There is a constant assumption they know why we voted the way we did and they are usually wrong. In fact if you look at Jack's post above he does it again.

We (at least I) have been trying to find out from you for over two years and you refuse to tell us.
All we ever get is "if you don't know by now"
"Look back at previous posts and you will find out"
"I didn't make up my mind because of the £350 million pounds for the NHS"
"The Remain moaning has made me even more leave"
is just a selection of the poor excuses remainers get from leavers. We have to assume why you voted leave, because there is no good reason to have done so.

Which post do you mean? Or are you going to do a Brexit and run away?

[Mervyn and Trish]

Jack, frankly I can't be ar##d to go back over all the posts to find them.

If you're actually interested you can do the leg work.

But you're not. I have posted my reasons several times. And every time you have ignored it. And just continue to make your own assumptions and be insulting.

[oldbluefox]

Wasting your time Merv because Jack never listens and closes his ears to anything the Leavers say. Towny posted this just yesterday:
"Re: Brexit
#4078 Post by towny44 » 26 Jan 2019 21:05
Jack, I want to leave the EU because the new federal version no longer offers me the main reason for y support in joining its free trade version.
So I want a brexit that frees me from all the EU bureaucracy but still offers me a good free trade deal, and before you say that was never available, of course it was if only the EU had not decided to play hard ball. It should have been an easy task since we conform to all their regulations now, and as far as export goods are concerned we would probably have been willing to remain so and even take into account new ones if needed.
But if we don't get Mays deal then I think maybe no deal, since I still they will blink first, or at least the German exporters will, who after all are the only thing keeping the EU afloat once we leave".

We have all explained to Jack but he trots out the same excuses time and time again.

[Jack Staff]

Wasting your time Merv because Jack never listens and closes his ears to anything the Leavers say. Towny posted this just yesterday:
"Re: Brexit
#4078 Post by towny44 » 26 Jan 2019 21:05
Jack, I want to leave the EU because .....

We have all explained to Jack but he trots out the same excuses time and time again.

To which I replied...

Thank you John, I think I finally have an insight into the Brexit mind.

At least John gave it a go and came up with some valid reasoning. I appreciate that.
Merv however did exactly what I said he would in the very previous post!

[oldbluefox]

Jack Staff - "We (at least I) have been trying to find out from you for over two years and you refuse to tell us".

Are you expecting us all to repeat what John told you which basically said what we have all already told you. I have no intention of going back over all my posts and, it seems, neither does Merv but to say we, as Leavers, have refused to tell you is a lie. And as one who watches the Politics programme with barney you should know in detail why the Leave vote won. Barney does.

[Jack Staff]

Jack Staff - "We (at least I) have been trying to find out from you for over two years and you refuse to tell us".

Are you expecting us all to repeat what John told you which basically said what we have all already told you. I have no intention of going back over all my posts and, it seems, neither does Merv but to say we, as Leavers, have refused to tell you is a lie. And as one who watches the Politics programme with barney you should know in detail why the Leave vote won. Barney does.

As I said it took over two years to get something sensible from a leaver, I disagreed with it, but I can understand the motivation.
I know exactly how the leave vote won. I believe I might have mentioned it.

But lets face it, overall there is no good reason for us to leave the EU. That is why we and our government, still have no idea how to do it.
Fail to plan, plan to fail.

[Mervyn and Trish]

But lets face it, overall there is no good reason for us to leave the EU.

In your opinion Jack, to which you are entitled. An opinion shared by Call Me Dave, who, like you, couldn't believe anyone would disagree, to his cost.

However, 17m people did. And they believe they have good reasons. An opinion to which they are equally entitled.

Which is why the government is now trying to deliver their wishes, as Call Me Dave promised they would, before the referendum and before he did a bunk when he found how wrong he'd been.

[Jack Staff]

But lets face it, overall there is no good reason for us to leave the EU.

In your opinion Jack, to which you are entitled. An opinion shared by Call Me Dave, who, like you, couldn't believe anyone would disagree, to his cost.

However, 17m people did. And they believe they have good reasons. An opinion to which they are equally entitled.

Which is why the government is now trying to deliver their wishes, as Call Me Dave promised they would, before the referendum and before he did a bunk when he found how wrong he'd been.

That's just it. I talk about reasons, you talk about opinions.
17 m people was then. Not now we have seen our country haemorrhaging money, companies, future investment and highly skilled staff.

[oldbluefox]

17 m people was then. Not now we have seen our country haemorrhaging money, companies, future investment and highly skilled staff.

I know you always provide links. What is the link for this?

[barney]

It's simply not true. More remainer clap trap. Still loads of coulds and maybes. Look to the headline on today's Observer. Absolute garbage and the suckers fall for it. Project Hysterical

[oldbluefox]

I know exactly how the leave vote won. I believe I might have mentioned it.

I think you did Jack. Didn't you say the Leave vote came about because of the middle classes in the North? That was memorable!!!
However to my knowledge you never gave the reasons for the success of the Leave vote.

[Jack Staff]

17 m people was then. Not now we have seen our country haemorrhaging money, companies, future investment and highly skilled staff.

I know you always provide links. What is the link for this?

Difficult one that. There are quite a few, but any I do post will be remainer bias or whatever.
But just to help, google "latest eu referendum polls" for example and pick one you fancy.

[Jack Staff]

I know exactly how the leave vote won. I believe I might have mentioned it.

I think you did Jack. Didn't you say the Leave vote came about because of the middle classes in the North? That was memorable!!!

That's so memorable I have no recollection of saying that. I'll let it go this time, you might be right. But feel free to prove it if you wish.

However to my knowledge you never gave the reasons for the success of the Leave vote.

The vote was bought buy foreign money.
The vote was illegal.
The illegal vote has not been annulled simply because it was only advisory.
The result is being forced on us because the PM said he would. The new PM said she would provide strong and stable government.

[anniec]

But lets face it, overall there is no good reason for us to leave the EU.

In your opinion Jack, to which you are entitled. An opinion shared by Call Me Dave, who, like you, couldn't believe anyone would disagree, to his cost.

However, 17m people did. And they believe they have good reasons. An opinion to which they are equally entitled.

Which is why the government is now trying to deliver their wishes, as Call Me Dave promised they would, before the referendum and before he did a bunk when he found how wrong he'd been.

Actually, Cameron declared himself a Eurosceptic in 2010:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldn ... -deal.html

The upshot of this entire debacle is that I no longer believe a word any of them say, a lazy and tired cliche, but they all seem hell-bent on proving it correct.

[barney]

They still don't seem to get it at all. Millions no longer give a flying fig about their scare stories. We just want the politicians to get on with the job that the electorate INSTRUCTED them to do. That is to leave the European Union. If they can't or won't do it, then their days are numbered.

[Gill W]

Calm down Barney, you are another one who has sounded angry for the last three years. It can’t be doing you any good

[screwy]

Bit Rich !

[Manoverboard]

I think Barney is perfectly calm … he does, for me, deal in facts and generally tells it how it is rather than spouting histrionics.

Barney

[Gill W]

Screwy, I haven’t been banging on for 3 years solid. I’ve been cross from time to time, but not in permanent state of rage! There is a subtle difference you know

Seriously, though, I am starting to wonder about the health of some posters on here.

Is it to late to call once again for all of us to
cool it down, for the good of all of us?

ETA - yes, it’s obviouly too late

Ah well, I’ll brace myself for three more years of Leaver Claptrap ( nobody complained about the use of the term Remainer Claptrap so I assume this is an acceptable thing to say)

As you were, guys, carry on as it’s all apparently fine

[oldbluefox]

Nothing wrong with Barney's post. He is absolutely right.

[Onelife]

Bit Rich !

If Gill is representative of most remainers then yes it is a "Bit Rich". She along with the other saboteurs have done nothing but display 'anger' at what was a democratic vote by the country.

They all need to get behind Theresa's deal or this is definitely going to end up in tears.

[Onelife]

Nothing wrong with Barney's post. He is absolutely right.

l wouldn't go that far Foxy, he's been really nasty to my Theresa ....come to think about it so have you