Brexit

[barney]

Even more interesting now is why nothing happened. Hmmmmmm.

Please enlighten us. What did or did not happen? The way I understand it is that no deal is still on the table so I'm not sure what you are celebrating.

[Jack Staff]

Please enlighten us. What did or did not happen? The way I understand it is that no deal is still on the table so I'm not sure what you are celebrating.

Yes, we are still heading to disaster, no real connection to Noel Edmonds.
I was hearing of a big announcement from Labour, but that was trumped by a bigger one.
The original was credible, then it got stupid.
I was interested, not celebrating, because I didn't know what wasn't announced and hasn't been! (yet?)

So I'm just hoping against all hope that something will happen that will thwart the will of the people being the pesky remoaner unpatriotic saboteur that I am.
There, saved you guys some typing.

[towny44]

Jack, with trust on both sides why would th ere need to be any policing, if the documentation is correctly recorded on whatever computer system that's used there would be a verifiable audit trail, which happens with lots of similar systems worldwide.
And your sarcastic and condescending rep!y has duly been noted by my computer.

Because that is not what happens with Norway Sweden. Countries that are in the same block (EEA).
If software can't do it there, it can not do it where the differences are even greater.

I'm glad your computer understands what goes around comes around. 'Bout time.

Jack, there are articles on the net that state that there is friction-less movement of goods between Norway and Sweden, apart from food and farm products, now I have no idea which articles are correct and which have been spun to make a point, but clearly both your view and mine cannot be correct, or maybe it can, who knows.

[towny44]

Please enlighten us. What did or did not happen? The way I understand it is that no deal is still on the table so I'm not sure what you are celebrating.

Yes, we are still heading to disaster, no real connection to Noel Edmonds.
I was hearing of a big announcement from Labour, but that was trumped by a bigger one.
The original was credible, then it got stupid.
I was interested, not celebrating, because I didn't know what wasn't announced and hasn't been! (yet?)
Does that even make sense.
So I'm just hoping against all hope that something will happen that will thwart the will of the people being the pesky remoaner unpatriotic saboteur that I am.
There, saved you guys some typing.

Jack, please could you try to keep things simple so that this thick uneducated racist brexiteer can grasp a little of what you are writing.

[Jack Staff]

Jack, there are articles on the net that state that there is friction-less movement of goods between Norway and Sweden, apart from food and farm products, now I have no idea which articles are correct and which have been spun to make a point, but clearly both your view and mine cannot be correct, or maybe it can, who knows.

That is probably correct because....

"Norway's membership in the European Economic Area (EEA) grants it access to the EU's vast common market and most goods are exempt from paying duties. Still, everything entering the country must be declared and cleared through customs."
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/0 ... order.html

and that's the point. Norway and Sweden are so close, that few checks are required. But they still have this hard border.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vhJAUt5sxA

That is not what the UK wants, of course we do not yet even know what we want, but a 'Norway deal' will have you joining Barney and myself complaining.
Norway/Sweden, even with added unicorns, does not work for the British one way or another. Even with the promise of future technological improvements.

[Onelife]

Jack me ole mate......A sabotuer is a person who tries to make a mess of things on purpose... aka...those of you who disregarded what was a democratic vote.i

I read now that Corbyn will be following in the footsteps of Blair trying to reassure Brussels that if they hold their nerve we will blink first....Both weasels are traitors who are willing to bring the country to its knees, one of whom is doing it for political gain the other because he thinks he is the next coming of Christ.

Let's just hope Theresa doesn't just say F*** the lot of you and walk away because that would be a self inflicted tragedy for our country.

[towny44]

Jack, there are articles on the net that state that there is friction-less movement of goods between Norway and Sweden, apart from food and farm products, now I have no idea which articles are correct and which have been spun to make a point, but clearly both your view and mine cannot be correct, or maybe it can, who knows.

That is probably correct because....

"Norway's membership in the European Economic Area (EEA) grants it access to the EU's vast common market and most goods are exempt from paying duties. Still, everything entering the country must be declared and cleared through customs."
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/0 ... order.html

and that's the point. Norway and Sweden are so close, that few checks are required. But they still have this hard border.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vhJAUt5sxA

That is not what the UK wants, of course we do not yet even know what we want, but a 'Norway deal' will have you joining Barney and myself complaining.
Norway/Sweden, even with added unicorns, does not work for the British one way or another. Even with the promise of future technological improvements.

Jack, I was not advocating that we join the EEA, rather I was suggesting that a software option could be used to facilitate frictionless cross border trade, if there was goodwill on both sides, something which seems sadly lacking from the EU, which seems to see the UK outside the EU as some sort of pariah state bent on the destruction of their beloved community.

[Jack Staff]

Jack, I was not advocating that we join the EEA, rather I was suggesting that a software option could be used to facilitate frictionless cross border trade, if there was goodwill on both sides, something which seems sadly lacking from the EU, which seems to see the UK outside the EU as some sort of pariah state bent on the destruction of their beloved community.

I think you are deliberately missing the point.
A 'software solution' is not (yet) possible between Norway/Sweden who not only trust each other but are very close trade wise.

We do not want to be that close, so a software solution is even more not possible.

Please stop with the "seems sadly lacking....." as it shows exactly where there is a lack of goodwill.

[Jack Staff]

Let's just hope Theresa doesn't just say F*** the lot of you and walk away because that would be a self inflicted tragedy for our country.

She has managed to alienate everybody. This whole business is a tragedy for the country.

[towny44]

Jack, I was not advocating that we join the EEA, rather I was suggesting that a software option could be used to facilitate frictionless cross border trade, if there was goodwill on both sides, something which seems sadly lacking from the EU, which seems to see the UK outside the EU as some sort of pariah state bent on the destruction of their beloved community.

I think you are deliberately missing the point.
A 'software solution' is not (yet) possible between Norway/Sweden who not only trust each other but are very close trade wise.

We do not want to be that close, so a software solution is even more not possible.

Please stop with the "seems sadly lacking....." as it shows exactly where there is a lack of goodwill.

Jack, what sort of system do we use at present?

[Jack Staff]

Jack, what sort of system do we use at present?

Where? For What?
You are obviously trying to go somewhere with this, so come on out with it.
Just tell us your plan and how it works.

[Onelife]

Let's just hope Theresa doesn't just say F*** the lot of you and walk away because that would be a self inflicted tragedy for our country.

She has managed to alienate everybody. This whole business is a tragedy for the country.

She hasn't alienated everybody....she hasn't deviated much from what the country voted for, what we have is a heard of sheep following a few head strong snowflakes who are happy to be tupped by a few rams in Brussels.

Baaaa

[Jack Staff]

She hasn't alienated everybody....she hasn't deviated much from what the country voted for, what we have is a heard of sheep following a few head strong snowflakes who are happy to be tupped by a few rams in Brussels.

Baaaa

Ewe can't pull the wool over our eyes.
What half the country voted for. She then called the others "Citizens of nowhere" alienating them.
She is going for a deal that a proportion of Brexiters don't want (ERG, Barney and the like) alienating them.
The only people left are ones who think they are in with a shot at her job and a few loyalists (I think that's just you! )

[towny44]

Jack, what sort of system do we use at present?

Where? For What?
You are obviously trying to go somewhere with this, so come on out with it.
Just tell us your plan and how it works.

You know full well Jack, currently we presumably use an EU computer system for movement of goods between companies, so why can't we use similar software in future. In both cases you have to rely on trust that everyone is complying, as I stated earlier why do we suddenly become untrustworthy when we leave.

[barney]

She hasn't alienated everybody....she hasn't deviated much from what the country voted for, what we have is a heard of sheep following a few head strong snowflakes who are happy to be tupped by a few rams in Brussels.

Baaaa

Ewe can't pull the wool over our eyes.
What half the country voted for. She then called the others "Citizens of nowhere" alienating them.
She is going for a deal that a proportion of Brexiters don't want (ERG, Barney and the like) alienating them.
The only people left are ones who think they are in with a shot at her job and a few loyalists (I think that's just you! )

One sentence would win the MPs over. Either a time limited backstop OR that the UK can unilaterally terminate if it's clear that no trade deal can be agreed. Simple as that. The only people who can avoid us leaving without a WA are Ireland and the EU negotiator.

[Mervyn and Trish]

The Euro is here to stay as much as the US $ is and personally I see it as one big missed opportunity for the UK.

Really? Well as I've said before and I'll say it again, everyone is entitled to their view, and I respect those differing views, even if I disagree.

But this one surprises me.

The majority of people see not being in the Euro as a bullet dodged.

Yes it is a great convenience for tourists and I imagine not having to change currency is even more useful for business.

But the constraint on countries of not having control of their own currency has been a crippler for the weak. And very expensive for the strong.

Being shackled to the Euro is a major factor in the rampant unemployment in Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal. Would you seriously wish that on us?

In the economic crash one of the tools we were able to use to get through it was to effectively devalue. Eurozone countries didn't have that option.

And the relative value of the Pound against the Euro has helped our exports to be competitive in Europe. Our trade deficit with the EU is bad enough. Imagine if our exports had been harder to sell.

Plus I'm unhappy enough about the way we've had to fork out to support Euro countries. It's been even worse for those within the Euro zone.

[Jack Staff]

... as I stated earlier why do we suddenly become untrustworthy when we leave.

Either a time limited backstop OR that the UK can unilaterally terminate if it's clear that no trade deal can be agreed. Simple as that.

[Gill W]

Six weeks to go, and still we don't know on what terms we will be leaving the EU

I motice that May has not been seen or heard from since last night's vote. Given the pressing urgency of the situation, that is a shocking lack of leadership.

Basically, the Leave campaigns lied - they promised the impossible, and it's now clear that their campaign was a load of carp.

Apart from zealots like the ERG and random blokes on the interest, the concencus opinion that any Brexit will be damaging to the UK, and a no deal Brexit will be catastrophic.

Onelife is fond of bandying around the term 'saboteur'. I suggest that a 'sabateor' is someone who persists in carrying on with an action that the vast body of evidence says will be disasterous - and anybody who cheers them on or supports them is complicit.

[Manoverboard]

Have you ever held a position of high office Gill ?

Our hard working chum Teresa is doubtless winging her way to Brussels to continue with the negotiations regarding the backstop. She has had previous experience of negotiating with the EU so is alert to their dark arts and eleventh hour fudges.

Six weeks is tons of time, keep cool and try to enjoy the final hours.

[barney]

Six weeks to go, and still we don't know on what terms we will be leaving the EU

I motice that May has not been seen or heard from since last night's vote. Given the pressing urgency of the situation, that is a shocking lack of leadership.

Basically, the Leave campaigns lied - they promised the impossible, and it's now clear that their campaign was a load of carp.

Apart from zealots like the ERG and random blokes on the interest, the concencus opinion that any Brexit will be damaging to the UK, and a no deal Brexit will be catastrophic.

Onelife is fond of bandying around the term 'saboteur'. I suggest that a 'sabateor' is someone who persists in carrying on with an action that the vast body of evidence says will be disasterous - and anybody who cheers them on or supports them is complicit.

So, it's agreed then !
Once you have joined the EU (Common Market in our case) then it's impossible to leave.
The Article 50 treaty that can trigger a member leaving is irrelevant and should never have even been written into the Treaty.

Gosh, I wish we had known that when we were taken into the Common Market, without a vote, I may add.

So, we are trapped in a political instituation that the majority voted against, until the end of time... or the end of the EU, which ever comes sooner.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Six weeks to go, and still we don't know on what terms we will be leaving the EU

I motice that May has not been seen or heard from since last night's vote. Given the pressing urgency of the situation, that is a shocking lack of leadership.

Basically, the Leave campaigns lied - they promised the impossible, and it's now clear that their campaign was a load of carp.

Apart from zealots like the ERG and random blokes on the interest, the concencus opinion that any Brexit will be damaging to the UK, and a no deal Brexit will be catastrophic.

Onelife is fond of bandying around the term 'saboteur'. I suggest that a 'sabateor' is someone who persists in carrying on with an action that the vast body of evidence says will be disasterous - and anybody who cheers them on or supports them is complicit.

If there was such a consensus opinion, leaving would have been cancelled. Especially as there is a clear majority of Remainers in parliament. But there isn't.

In fact the problem is there isn't a consensus for anything!

And everytime Parliament demonstrates that it gives greater heart to the EU's negotiators, whose aim is not to negotiate a workable deal for all but to stop us leaving.

And I agree with Moby's point above. At times of crisis a leader's place is not posturing on Twitter or Facebook, or handing out sound bites to the media. It is getting on with the job, often out of sight.

And as for no deal. Of course only a few want it. But it has to stay on the table. Otherwise the EU know that the choice would be May's current deal, that suits them better than us, or no Brexit. Which would suit them more.

[towny44]

Six weeks to go, and still we don't know on what terms we will be leaving the EU



Apart from zealots like the ERG and random blokes on the interest, the concencus opinion that any Brexit will be damaging to the UK, and a no deal Brexit will be catastrophic.

Gill, the twitter remainers might project this consensus, although I suspect they would prefer the infamous people vote. But I think there might still be a majority in the country who favour leaving, but I agree most would like to leave with a deal to ensure there is a smooth transition.

[Gill W]

Have you ever held a position of high office Gill ?

Our hard working chum Teresa is doubtless winging her way to Brussels to continue with the negotiations regarding the backstop. She has had previous experience of negotiating with the EU so is alert to their dark arts and eleventh hour fudges.

Six weeks is tons of time, keep cool and try to enjoy the final hours.

But she's not continuing negotiations, is she? As I've said numerous times, the Brexit deal was signed off in November. The EU are steadfastly saying they will not re-start negotiations, and we haven't come up with anything new, so there's nothing to renegotiate anyway. We are stuck in the same place we've been stuck, for weeks and weeks.

I'm sorry to say I think you are deluding yourself if you think there's going to be some sort an 11th hour roll over by the EU. It realistically isn't going to happen.

I'm not sure why anybody would be enjoying the current situation

[Gill W]

Six weeks to go, and still we don't know on what terms we will be leaving the EU

I motice that May has not been seen or heard from since last night's vote. Given the pressing urgency of the situation, that is a shocking lack of leadership.

Basically, the Leave campaigns lied - they promised the impossible, and it's now clear that their campaign was a load of carp.

Apart from zealots like the ERG and random blokes on the interest, the concencus opinion that any Brexit will be damaging to the UK, and a no deal Brexit will be catastrophic.

Onelife is fond of bandying around the term 'saboteur'. I suggest that a 'sabateor' is someone who persists in carrying on with an action that the vast body of evidence says will be disasterous - and anybody who cheers them on or supports them is complicit.

So, it's agreed then !
Once you have joined the EU (Common Market in our case) then it's impossible to leave.
The Article 50 treaty that can trigger a member leaving is irrelevant and should never have even been written into the Treaty.

Gosh, I wish we had known that when we were taken into the Common Market, without a vote, I may add.

So, we are trapped in a political instituation that the majority voted against, until the end of time... or the end of the EU, which ever comes sooner.

Good twisting of my words, Barney

As you well know, unless something happens, we are leaving in six weeks time, so its obviously possible to leave. However, due to Leave lies, people were sold on the idea that it would be easy, we'd get a great deal, blah, blah. Whereas, for those who gave it more than a passing thought, it was obvious that it is really difficult to undo 40 years of shared history, particularly where there is the unique Irish Border situation. The Leavers promised the earth, what they promised can't be delivered, and even worse, what can be delivered will damage us

[Gill W]

If there was such a consensus opinion, leaving would have been cancelled. Especially as there is a clear majority of Remainers in parliament. But there isn't.


In fact the problem is there isn't a consensus for anything!

And everytime Parliament demonstrates that it gives greater heart to the EU's negotiators, whose aim is not to negotiate a workable deal for all but to stop us leaving.

And I agree with Moby's point above. At times of crisis a leader's place is not posturing on Twitter or Facebook, or handing out sound bites to the media. It is getting on with the job, often out of sight.

And as for no deal. Of course only a few want it. But it has to stay on the table. Otherwise the EU know that the choice would be May's current deal, that suits them better than us, or no Brexit. Which would suit them more.

The trouble with parliament is that they are completely paralysed by the conflict of 'respecting the referendum' which has the outcome of causing damage to the country.

I'm not even going to comment about the EU wanting to 'stop us leaving' - after all this, I think they will be pleased to see the back of us.

Who mentioned Twitter or Facebook? Unfortunately, I think you may be in the same boat as Moby, deluding yourself into believing something is happening. We are stuck - there is nothing new. Until we find something new, or parliament mobilises itself to take over we remain stuck.

I think no deal is a strange negotiating tool. 'Do what we say, otherwise we shoot ourselves in the head'.