Current Affairs

[Onelife]

Gill, if you followed the thread you would know that I support the current regional and tiered approach, which in places appears to be starting to work, and certainly this last week the number of daily cases does appear to have stalled in the low 20,000s. Yet again I am disappointed that Boris, seems to have been bullied into these tighter restrictions, before he has allowed the current measures enough time to truly determine their effectiveness.

We haven’t got the luxury of time.

Gill, last time it took nearly 3 months from lockdown to bring infections down to a level where a limited easing could be started. What evidence do you have that this time it can be done in 4 weeks, especially when public opinion among the young is totally against a lockdown, which can only mean that observance of the rules this time will not be as good as in March and April.
This is why I much prefer the tiered approach which, even though it still does not have the full support of the young, it is probably far more acceptable to them than a full lockdown, and hopefully will continue to slow the infection rate, albeit not as fast a fully observed lockdown will. I am a pragmatist and try to take on board the wider views, and I think this 4 week lockdown is doomed to failure,

It will in my opinion make a difference John but there will be the inevitable time lag before infection rates start falling.
I do think the tier system has a place but further measures will need to be in place if we truly want to stop the spread of this virus…. we have to have adherence to all of the social distancing measures that are now in place…the only way I see this happening is to bring in thousands of “unarmed” Army personal to be used as street/venue marshals as I believe a uniformed presence will send out the right message to would be rule breakers.

It goes without saying Face masks should be compulsory and those not adhering to this should be shot on sight.

[Meg 50]

Being all heart, I felt a little sorry for Boris at yesterdays shambles of a briefing…. he looked a broken man in need of some anti-depressants…I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s announced that he’s taken to his bed having been found to be suffering from Long Covid/pressure of responsibility.

poor s*d - whatever he does 'is wrong' in someone's eyes.

hindsight is a wonderful gift

[Gill W]

Gill, if you followed the thread you would know that I support the current regional and tiered approach, which in places appears to be starting to work, and certainly this last week the number of daily cases does appear to have stalled in the low 20,000s. Yet again I am disappointed that Boris, seems to have been bullied into these tighter restrictions, before he has allowed the current measures enough time to truly determine their effectiveness.

We haven’t got the luxury of time.

Gill, last time it took nearly 3 months from lockdown to bring infections down to a level where a limited easing could be started. What evidence do you have that this time it can be done in 4 weeks, especially when public opinion among the young is totally against a lockdown, which can only mean that observance of the rules this time will not be as good as in March and April.
This is why I much prefer the tiered approach which, even though it still does not have the full support of the young, it is probably far more acceptable to them than a full lockdown, and hopefully will continue to slow the infection rate, albeit not as fast a fully observed lockdown will. I am a pragmatist and try to take on board the wider views, and I think this 4 week lockdown is doomed to failure,

Eh?

I haven’t said that it’ll be all sorted in 4 weeks. Where have you got that idea from?

See my post #7195 where I called the latest lockdown a sticking plaster.

[david63]

f we truly want to stop the spread of this virus

Everyone admits that we will never, or at least for many many years, stop the spread of this virus - at best we can aim to control it.

we have to have adherence to all of the social distancing measures that are now in place

With that I agree - and it is not just with the population but also with venues who have to shoulder some responsibility.

I cannot understand why we have moved from the tier system which appears to be starting to work to a full lockdown which even the "experts" are saying may only have a marginal impact and will cause massive upset to both the economy and people's lives, not to mention that there will be a number of businesses that will never reopen.

[Gill W]

They said in the briefing why they are doing a full lockdown in England.

It’s because all the modelling shows that the trajectory is worse than their previous reasonable worse case scenarios.

That’s the reason they gave

[oldbluefox]

I think the key to controlling the virus rests on everybody's shoulders and if we all either voluntarily or involuntarily abided by the restrictions w could bring the rates down. The answer lies with every individual.
Unfortunately, as in the previous lockdown there will be those who will look to circumvent the regulations or seek a loophole or an inconsistency to justify their excuse and some in the media are virtually encouraging it. Apparently Dubai locks down immediately and anyone not conforming is dragged off to the cooler not to be seen for a long time. Meanwhile in England it's a case of "engage and educate". Time to show we mean it this time but I doubt it.

[Kendhni]

It goes without saying Face masks should be compulsory and those not adhering to this should be shot on sight.

I wouldn't go quite that far, but I have, on more than one occasion, been offered £10 for my old empty inhalers. Apparently they want it to prove they have asthma and so can claim they don't need to wear a mask - pathetic.

As I have posted for many months, the message should be simple ... NO MASK, NO ENTRY, NO EXCEPTIONS.
And I mean no exceptions, I don't care about age, condition or mental abilities - there should be no exceptions for indoor facilities.

[Stephen]

I think the key to controlling the virus rests on everybody's shoulders and if we all either voluntarily or involuntarily abided by the restrictions w could bring the rates down. The answer lies with every individual.
Unfortunately, as in the previous lockdown there will be those who will look to circumvent the regulations or seek a loophole or an inconsistency to justify their excuse and some in the media are virtually encouraging it. Apparently Dubai locks down immediately and anyone not conforming is dragged off to the cooler not to be seen for a long time. Meanwhile in England it's a case of "engage and educate". Time to show we mean it this time but I doubt it.

Not with our nanny state Foxy.

[Onelife]

It goes without saying Face masks should be compulsory and those not adhering to this should be shot on sight.

I wouldn't go quite that far, but I have, on more than one occasion, been offered £10 for my old empty inhalers. Apparently they want it to prove they have asthma and so can claim they don't need to wear a mask - pathetic.

As I have posted for many months, the message should be simple ... NO MASK, NO ENTRY, NO EXCEPTIONS.
And I mean no exceptions, I don't care about age, condition or mental abilities - there should be no exceptions for indoor facilities.

I was thinking more along the lines of water pistols…otherwise known as water cannons

[david63]

It’s because all the modelling shows that the trajectory is worse than their previous reasonable worse case scenarios.

That’s the reason they gave

But the modelling is for worst case scenarios without any intervention and, by their own admission, is subject to error. Intervention was/is in place and appeared to be working. If some action is required then, in my view, the whole country should have been put into tier three.

And I mean no exceptions, I don't care about age, condition or mental abilities - there should be no exceptions for indoor facilities.

I would make the proviso that for the few who cannot wear a mask for medical reasons then they should wear a visor and if they cannot wear a visor then they should not be out - simples.

[oldbluefox]

Some wear a visor and park it on top of their head!!! Similarly those who wear masks but don't cover their noses!!! Could instructions be issued for the braindead?

[Gill W]

It’s because all the modelling shows that the trajectory is worse than their previous reasonable worse case scenarios.

That’s the reason they gave

But the modelling is for worst case scenarios without any intervention and, by their own admission, is subject to error. Intervention was/is in place and appeared to be working. If some action is required then, in my view, the whole country should have been put into tier three.

I was just reporting the what they said

[david63]

I was just reporting the what they said

And that is the problem - we are being told what they want us to hear without all the significant details. We all know that statistics can be portrayed in a way to suit a particular purpose.

The medical/scientific community only have one tool at their disposal and that is "lockdown". This is the WHO approach which was drawn up over 30 years ago when the world was a totally different place - an alternative will have to be found.

We all know that if we had a total lockdown with nobody, worldwide, going out of their home for two months that we would see the almost total extinction of the virus - but we would also see more deaths from starvation, hyperthermia and suicide than we would from Covid-19. Imagine no food, no electricity, no gas, no telephone (mobile or otherwise), no TV, no Internet

[towny44]

It goes without saying Face masks should be compulsory and those not adhering to this should be shot on sight.

I wouldn't go quite that far, but I have, on more than one occasion, been offered £10 for my old empty inhalers. Apparently they want it to prove they have asthma and so can claim they don't need to wear a mask - pathetic.

As I have posted for many months, the message should be simple ... NO MASK, NO ENTRY, NO EXCEPTIONS.
And I mean no exceptions, I don't care about age, condition or mental abilities - there should be no exceptions for indoor facilities.

Ken, you obviously are not obeying the social distancing ing rules if you are constantly being approached by shady characters wanting to buy your used inhalers.

[screwy]

Even the Scientists etc can’t agree between themselves,so I guess we’re just goosed.

[Manoverboard]

But Moby, the young are the future.!

Quite so .... somebody has to be and it's not going to be me

[Manoverboard]

Average age of those who have died from Covid, 82.4 years.

Really .... I knew somebody who was 53, do you know somebody who was 112 ?

[towny44]

Average age of those who have died from Covid, 82.4 years.

Really .... I knew somebody who was 53, do you know somebody who was 112 ?

There have been nearly 50,000 of them so it's quite possible.

[Onelife]

f we truly want to stop the spread of this virus

Everyone admits that we will never, or at least for many many years, stop the spread of this virus - at best we can aim to control it.

we have to have adherence to all of the social distancing measures that are now in place

With that I agree - and it is not just with the population but also with venues who have to shoulder some responsibility.

I cannot understand why we have moved from the tier system which appears to be starting to work to a full lockdown which even the "experts" are saying may only have a marginal impact and will cause massive upset to both the economy and people's lives, not to mention that there will be a number of businesses that will never reopen.

David, you along with others have been advocates of the much-vaunted track and trace system, therefor I would have thought the best approach would be to get numbers down as quickly as possible in order to make the system viable…up till now the three tier approach has delayed this happening and has served little purpose other than keeping a few thousand telephone tracers in a job.

[Midlandslass]

Average age of those who have died from Covid, 82.4 years.

Really .... I knew somebody who was 53, do you know somebody who was 112 ?

I don't know anyone who has died from the virus.
We are ruining our economy for people reaching the end of their natural lifespan and sacrificing our childrens and grand childrens future for a virus which will run it's natural course.
All the lockdown achieves is kicking the can further down the road.
JMHO YMMV
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/aver ... -pcwqrzdzz

[towny44]

Average age of those who have died from Covid, 82.4 years.

Really .... I knew somebody who was 53, do you know somebody who was 112 ?

I don't know anyone who has died from the virus.
We are ruining our economy for people reaching the end of their natural lifespan and sacrificing our childrens and grand childrens future for a virus which will run it's natural course.
All the lockdown achieves is kicking the can further down the road.
JMHO YMMV
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/aver ... -pcwqrzdzz

It is difficult to argue with any of that, even it is a little heartless.

[Manoverboard]

Really .... I knew somebody who was 53, do you know somebody who was 112 ?

I don't know anyone who has died from the virus.
We are ruining our economy for people reaching the end of their natural lifespan and sacrificing our childrens and grand childrens future for a virus which will run it's natural course.
All the lockdown achieves is kicking the can further down the road.
JMHO YMMV
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/aver ... -pcwqrzdzz

It is difficult to argue with any of that, even it is a little heartless.

I would only wish to point out that it is probably our Children and Grandchildren who are spreading the virus so perhaps they should reap what they sow. Or is it perhaps the fault of the many unmasked ladies who can be observed shopping in the markets and malls on the TV News programs ?

[Midlandslass]

Really .... I knew somebody who was 53, do you know somebody who was 112 ?

I don't know anyone who has died from the virus.
We are ruining our economy for people reaching the end of their natural lifespan and sacrificing our childrens and grand childrens future for a virus which will run it's natural course.
All the lockdown achieves is kicking the can further down the road.
JMHO YMMV
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/aver ... -pcwqrzdzz

It is difficult to argue with any of that, even it is a little heartless.

It may sound heartless but it is upto those in most danger to take the neccessary precautions to protect themselves.
I would say pragmatic

[Onelife]

Average age of those who have died from Covid, 82.4 years.

Really .... I knew somebody who was 53, do you know somebody who was 112 ?

I don't know anyone who has died from the virus.
We are ruining our economy for people reaching the end of their natural lifespan and sacrificing our childrens and grand childrens future for a virus which will run it's natural course.
All the lockdown achieves is kicking the can further down the road.
JMHO YMMV
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/aver ... -pcwqrzdzz

Where do you suggest we stack the bodies?

[oldbluefox]

We wouldn't have needed a lockdown and the economy would have been in a better state had everybody followed the guidelines.