Whatever the truth of the contracts it is surely true that it took the EU much longer than us to approve the vaccines and get on with sticking needles in arms. So during that time were Pfizer to pour their product down the toilet to export it where it could do some good?
There is no doubt that the EU ensuring it carried out due diligence did delay their vaccination program. They could have kept the stock pile of Pfizer jabs at the ultra low temperature building up (it would have remained stable for the extra few weeks) - but they allowed it to be exported.
We also carried out due diligence. We just did it more efficiently and faster than the sclerotic EU institutions. We also did it better. So we didn't end up halting vaccinations over "complications" well within the norm for the general population.
As I said before Ken we will have to agree to disagree. You seem to like the EU. I regard it as a bunch of unelected over bureaucratic bullies who think they are more important than the elected leaders of the countries within its boundaries and who are now terrified for their over inflated salaries as a result of their incompetence. And neither of us is going to alter the opinion of the other.
Last edited by Mervyn and Trish on 19 Mar 2021, 12:36, edited 2 times in total.
Whatever the truth of the contracts it is surely true that it took the EU much longer than us to approve the vaccines and get on with sticking needles in arms. So during that time were Pfizer to pour their product down the toilet to export it where it could do some good?
There is no doubt that the EU ensuring it carried out due diligence did delay their vaccination program. They could have kept the stock pile of Pfizer jabs at the ultra low temperature building up (it would have remained stable for the extra few weeks) - but they allowed it to be exported.
We also carried out due diligence. We just did it more efficiently and faster than the sclerotic EU institutions. We also did it better. So we didn't end up halting vaccinations over "complications" well within the norm for the general population.
We hope that is the case, although I have seen nothing to dispute it (apart from Johnson's track record in relation to due diligence - fortunately I don't believe he was in charge of carrying out due diligence on the vaccine).
As I said before Ken we will have to agree to disagree. You seem to like the EU. I regard it as a bunch of unelected over bureaucratic bullies who think they are more important than the elected leaders of the countries within its boundaries and who are now terrified for their over inflated salaries as a result of their incompetence. And neither of us is going to alter the opinion of the other.
Making stuff up doesn't advance any conversation. I have no idea why you think I like the EU, I have never stated an opinion one way or the other - it isn't a case of liking or disliking the EU or the UK or outer Mongolia it is a case of consistently applying the same expectations and standards to both sides.
There is no doubt that the EU ensuring it carried out due diligence did delay their vaccination program. They could have kept the stock pile of Pfizer jabs at the ultra low temperature building up (it would have remained stable for the extra few weeks) - but they allowed it to be exported.
We also carried out due diligence. We just did it more efficiently and faster than the sclerotic EU institutions. We also did it better. So we didn't end up halting vaccinations over "complications" well within the norm for the general population.
We hope that is the case, although I have seen nothing to dispute it (apart from Johnson's track record in relation to due diligence - fortunately I don't believe he was in charge of carrying out due diligence on the vaccine).
As I said before Ken we will have to agree to disagree. You seem to like the EU. I regard it as a bunch of unelected over bureaucratic bullies who think they are more important than the elected leaders of the countries within its boundaries and who are now terrified for their over inflated salaries as a result of their incompetence. And neither of us is going to alter the opinion of the other.
Making stuff up doesn't advance any conversation. I have no idea why you think I like the EU, I have never stated an opinion one way or the other - it isn't a case of liking or disliking the EU or the UK or outer Mongolia it is a case of consistently applying the same expectations and standards to both sides.
No Ken, whilst I remain European and enjoy visiting the countries, there is nothing about the EU structure and organisation that I want to see replicated in the UK, and ultimately it will fail just like the USSR did.
There is no doubt that the EU ensuring it carried out due diligence did delay their vaccination program. They could have kept the stock pile of Pfizer jabs at the ultra low temperature building up (it would have remained stable for the extra few weeks) - but they allowed it to be exported.
We also carried out due diligence. We just did it more efficiently and faster than the sclerotic EU institutions. We also did it better. So we didn't end up halting vaccinations over "complications" well within the norm for the general population.
We hope that is the case, although I have seen nothing to dispute it (apart from Johnson's track record in relation to due diligence - fortunately I don't believe he was in charge of carrying out due diligence on the vaccine).
As I said before Ken we will have to agree to disagree. You seem to like the EU. I regard it as a bunch of unelected over bureaucratic bullies who think they are more important than the elected leaders of the countries within its boundaries and who are now terrified for their over inflated salaries as a result of their incompetence. And neither of us is going to alter the opinion of the other.
Making stuff up doesn't advance any conversation. I have no idea why you think I like the EU, I have never stated an opinion one way or the other - it isn't a case of liking or disliking the EU or the UK or outer Mongolia it is a case of consistently applying the same expectations and standards to both sides.
Of course. Which is why I didn't say you like the EU. I said you seem to. A perception based on the overall drift of your posts over the past few months. And as PR people say "Perception is everything". But of course if I misread the runes I apologise. But for avoidance of doubt in the other direction I detest it. But maybe you perceived that too.
Last edited by Mervyn and Trish on 19 Mar 2021, 14:57, edited 1 time in total.
We also carried out due diligence. We just did it more efficiently and faster than the sclerotic EU institutions. We also did it better. So we didn't end up halting vaccinations over "complications" well within the norm for the general population.
We hope that is the case, although I have seen nothing to dispute it (apart from Johnson's track record in relation to due diligence - fortunately I don't believe he was in charge of carrying out due diligence on the vaccine).
As I said before Ken we will have to agree to disagree. You seem to like the EU. I regard it as a bunch of unelected over bureaucratic bullies who think they are more important than the elected leaders of the countries within its boundaries and who are now terrified for their over inflated salaries as a result of their incompetence. And neither of us is going to alter the opinion of the other.
Making stuff up doesn't advance any conversation. I have no idea why you think I like the EU, I have never stated an opinion one way or the other - it isn't a case of liking or disliking the EU or the UK or outer Mongolia it is a case of consistently applying the same expectations and standards to both sides.
No Ken, whilst I remain European and enjoy visiting the countries, there is nothing about the EU structure and organisation that I want to see replicated in the UK, and ultimately it will fail just like the USSR did.
So your vote would be against things like an elected head of state, an elected upper chamber and an elected Prime minister - how undemocratic of you . I am sure there are structures in the EU that could benefit the UK (in or out of the EU) greatly - Johnson seems to think so since the agreement he signed means we will be adopting some of those structures. The UK has pretty much adopted all EU law into its own and relies roll over deals for trading with the majority of previous trading partners (again reusing EU agreements)
Sadly I suspect the UK, as a federation of 3 countries and 1 region, is also on a path to failure along with the loss of overseas territories.
Sadly I suspect the UK, as a federation of 3 countries and 1 region, is also on a path to failure along with the loss of overseas territories.
Oh dear Ken, I don't know why you keep spouting your harbinger of doom nonsense. Contrary to what we have been told since we split from the EU house prices have not dropped, thousands have not been laid off, car makers have not deserted the UK, aeroplanes can still travel to Europe, the pound has not collapsed against all other currencies yet you still forecast failure.
If we lose overseas territories then so be it. In the same vein if the populations of Scotland, Wales and NI wish to split from the UK then so be it. As it stands, although there are bumps in the road which were totally expected I am just so glad to be free of the control of the EU and judging by the manner in which they have handled the vaccination programme I am doubly pleased. I am confident and looking forward to a closer trading relationship with the rest of the world.
Sadly I suspect the UK, as a federation of 3 countries and 1 region, is also on a path to failure along with the loss of overseas territories.
Oh dear Ken, I don't know why you keep spouting your harbinger of doom nonsense. Contrary to what we have been told since we split from the EU house prices have not dropped, thousands have not been laid off, car makers have not deserted the UK, aeroplanes can still travel to Europe, the pound has not collapsed against all other currencies yet you still forecast failure.
If we lose overseas territories then so be it. In the same vein if the populations of Scotland, Wales and NI wish to split from the UK then so be it. As it stands, although there are bumps in the road which were totally expected I am just so glad to be free of the control of the EU and judging by the manner in which they have handled the vaccination programme I am doubly pleased. I am confident and looking forward to a closer trading relationship with the rest of the world.
You may be right about the future of the UK, but we have a far better chance of remaining together than the EU.
Not only do we share a common language and currency, but we have a shared history and togetherness, that is sadly lacking throughout the EU.
Sadly I suspect the UK, as a federation of 3 countries and 1 region, is also on a path to failure along with the loss of overseas territories.
Oh dear Ken, I don't know why you keep spouting your harbinger of doom nonsense. Contrary to what we have been told since we split from the EU house prices have not dropped, thousands have not been laid off, car makers have not deserted the UK, aeroplanes can still travel to Europe, the pound has not collapsed against all other currencies yet you still forecast failure.
If we lose overseas territories then so be it. In the same vein if the populations of Scotland, Wales and NI wish to split from the UK then so be it. As it stands, although there are bumps in the road which were totally expected I am just so glad to be free of the control of the EU and judging by the manner in which they have handled the vaccination programme I am doubly pleased. I am confident and looking forward to a closer trading relationship with the rest of the world.
You have this wonderful knack of putting together an argument and then destroying it in the same post.
A group of woooly minded folk want to legalise protests during a lockdown ... Human rights gone mad
That to me is bonkers. Why should that trump being able to go to work or see friends and family? I don't recall seeing a protest during lockdown where proper Covid precautions have been sustained. They always end up too close together, usually yelling and pushing.
The letter to Ms Patel was signed by several Conservative MPs - including Steve Baker, and Sir Christopher Chope - as well as Liberal Democrat leader Sir Ed Davey and a number of Labour MPs and peers.
media caption Organisers said they cancelled a vigil originally planned at Clapham Common because police did not "constructively engage" with logistics
It demands that the home secretary issue guidance to police forces on "facilitating" protests to clear up the legal confusion surrounding the issue.
It calls on Ms Patel to act in order to avoid a situation where organisers and the police have to "decipher precisely what is required".
"The absence of clear guidance on these issues has created an entirely unsatisfactory situation, which has persisted to varying degrees for almost a year now," the letter says.
"The police have no legal certainty as to their duties and powers, protestors have no legal certainty as to their rights, and there is inconsistent application of the Regulations across the country. This cannot continue," the letter adds.
In response, the Home Office maintained its position that it would be illegal to leave home without a reasonable excuse until coronavirus rules change on 29 March.
……
I’m sure the police understand the position but what Ms Patel isn’t telling them is what measures should be used to enforce it.
The way I read it is that the 60 MPs are just asking for clarification on the matter.
The way I read it is that the 60 MPs are just asking for clarification on the matter.
The first two lines of the report state ...
" More than 60 MPs and peers have written to the home secretary calling for a change in Covid-19 legislation to allow protests to happen during lockdown ".
The law/guidance says stay at home except for specified circumstances. The list doesn't include demos. Clear enough for me.
And why even think about changing it? This virus is bad enough without encouraging extra spread by allowing people to shout at each other! I hope Priti tells them to p*ss off!
The way I read it is that the 60 MPs are just asking for clarification on the matter.
The first two lines of the report state ...
" More than 60 MPs and peers have written to the home secretary calling for a change in Covid-19 legislation to allow protests to happen during lockdown ".
Seems clear enough to me.
You are correct Mob…It’s been highlighted to grab readers attention; I am however a little more sceptical as to what the MP’s actually put their name too.
The law/guidance says stay at home except for specified circumstances. The list doesn't include demos. Clear enough for me.
And why even think about changing it? This virus is bad enough without encouraging extra spread by allowing people to shout at each other! I hope Priti tells them to p*ss off!
The law is clear about public gatherings during Covid…What the law doesn’t tell the law enforcers is how they should enforce them when the rules are broken….Batons, Fines or Both?
Water canon / cannon .... just a toss it in the middle type idea
And police horse charges. They go down well.
Or maybe they should just ignore them? Give the cops a day at home and let the yobbos smash up a few more properties and chuck a few more statues in the sea. Then see how the liberal lefties feel about it. I imagine Liberty would be overjoyed.
I am not, to be clear, accusing either genuine anti-racists or those with genuine concerns about the safety of women of such things. But we all know that any demo inevitably is joined by rent-a-mob looking for any excuse for a bit of bra-n-dead violence and mindless vandalism.
Apparently police are expecting idiots turning up for the Celtic v Rangers match today to celebrate Rangers championship success. Hopefully the police will get there first with dogs, horses and plenty of men to disperse them before they even gather.
When I look at the misery this pandemic has caused I cannot believe anyone would consider a protest march or meeting in the current situation. It has not gone away and has raised its head again in Europe. Unfortunately it is the Covid sceptics who will be spreading the disease. If there is an outbreak in London I hope any local lockdown becomes effective immediately before they have a chance to travel out of the capital and spread it to the rest of the country.
Oddly enough spreading the disease from the centre of infection is what happened in 1665. Human nature has not learnt anything has it?
Just give them a gentle squirt of water cannon as a warning of what's to come and then if they don't move it's full force. Why are we so soft on these individuals, frightened that we might upset them?
Some of them look as though they need a good wash anyway.
Last edited by oldbluefox on 20 Mar 2021, 12:18, edited 1 time in total.
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. I am sure there are structures in the EU that could benefit the UK (in or out of the EU) greatly - Johnson seems to think so since the agreement he signed means we will be adopting some of those structures. The UK has pretty much adopted all EU law into its own and relies roll over deals for trading with the majority of previous trading partners (again reusing EU agreements)
