Current Affairs

[towny44]

Sorry to hear that QB, it is always very hard to make someone redundant. Out of interest what would you suggest for getting this country back up and running again? I doubt if we will ever return to the status quo - I would actually consider that a step backwards, we are now in a new world with new requirements and new/better possibilities.

I suspect Johnson will do another of his U-turns and start back pedalling on some of the statements he and Javid have made (he will have no choice if he is to claim he is following scientific advice) - I am thinking that social distancing and mask wearing in certain public places (e.g. transport) will continue for a little while longer (or during rises of infection rate), possibly limited patronage and table service only in bars as well?

So Ken if Johnson recommends that masks be retained in some public areas, and that there should still be limits on the numbers allowed in certain large public events, will that be because he has listened to the scientific advice, or will it be because he has succumbed to public opinion, or will you just choose to assume the one that paints him in the worst possible light, as usual?

[Mervyn and Trish]

I don't kid myself this is over but this weekend has been amazing. We've had our grandchildren to stay over for the first time in over a year. We went to a 70th birthday party meeting Covid regs last night, our first party since it all kicked off. And tomorrow we go away for a couple of nights for a luxury hotel stay, twice postponed, first because of lockdown 1, and then because of my emergency hospital admission. A few days that feel so close to normal life.

[Manoverboard]

... I was trying to suggest that some, take QB as an example perhaps, put the emphasis of the Covid impact on their business ...

Not especially my business although it has been badly effected and I have just had to make my staff redundant but rather other businesses who have suffered terribly. I suppose my concern goes back to the times when I was head of our local Chamber of Commerce and had to represent a wide range of interests.

It’s a question of balance. In these harrowing times nobody is even thinking about profits. It’s a fight for survival and there is a mountain of debt to be paid back.

Thanks QB for an interesting slant on the pandemic, it makes a refreshing change from reading the endless predictable Boris barbs. From a position of ignorance I had been hoping that the seeds of recovery were starting to sprout, albeit not in every sector thus far.

[Quizzical Bob]

... I was trying to suggest that some, take QB as an example perhaps, put the emphasis of the Covid impact on their business ...

Not especially my business although it has been badly effected and I have just had to make my staff redundant but rather other businesses who have suffered terribly. I suppose my concern goes back to the times when I was head of our local Chamber of Commerce and had to represent a wide range of interests.

It’s a question of balance. In these harrowing times nobody is even thinking about profits. It’s a fight for survival and there is a mountain of debt to be paid back.

Thanks QB for an interesting slant on the pandemic, it makes a refreshing change from reading the endless predictable Boris barbs. From a position of ignorance I had been hoping that the seeds of recovery were starting to sprout, albeit not in every sector thus far.

Thanks MOB.

The debt that hangs over us all is not just financial. There are backlogs in all sorts of aspects of life be it medical treatments, educational progress, social development amongst the young, scientific advancements, intellectual development, the arts. They all depend on human interactions.

Extended lockdowns only spread out the infections and suppress the peak somewhat. At enormous cost hey have bought us the time to develop and distribute the vaccines which makes it especially disappointing to me that the young are reluctant to take advantage of them.

We are going to have to learn to live with this disease just as we have with every other one since society began. Next week is another step in this process and we shall see whether every aspect of it was necessary.

Personally I shall still avoid crowded places full of people shouting in each other’s faces and I shall continue to walk instead of taking the Tube. I shall wash my hands whenever I have been out and I shall open door handles using anything but my fingers.

But I have been doing that for years anyway.

[Gill W]

For the absence of doubt, here’s what Johnson actually said on 5th July

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches ... -july-2021

I’m posting this for easy reference ahead of the upcoming announcement this week regarding Johnson’s Terminus Day.

Reading it, it still seems a very bullish statement about removing restrictions.

‘For those who say we should delay again’ - his reason for not delaying.

He clearly mentions the words ‘return to normal’

It is clear that all legal restrictions are to go - no limits on numbers meeting indoors our out. Nightclubs opening at full capacity. Cinema and theatre back to full capacity. End social distancing rule and legal obligation to wear face covering to go.

It sounds suspiciously like ‘ditching all measures’ to me!

He does mention that the final decision will be taken on 12th July, but no great emphasis is placed on this. The messaging should be MUCH clearer on this, as many people are still convinced that 19th July is definitely there freedom day.

I noticed a U turn that I didn’t notice before. Previously it was loudly trumpeted that the ‘roadmap’ was irreversible. This has now been relegated to ‘ we will do everything possible to avoid reimposing restrictions.

I’m wondering if another U turn is already on the cards. Nadhim Zahawi said on Marr this morning that ‘people will be expected to wear masks in enclosed indoor spaces’. This has moved from people making informed decisions for themselves.

It will be very interesting to see how the populist Johnson proceeds. Will he U turn whilst trying to convince his fan base that he’s not U turning at all. Will he listen to the scientists and not proceed with the plan he told us about on 5th. Will he pander to the right wing libertarians and just plough on regardless.

At least there’s not too long to wait before we find out.

[screwy]

Forgive me if I’m wrong,but did Boris not say that Mask wearing on public transport,especially in busy periods should still be worn but on late night buses etc when it’s quiet this could be relaxed.? All upto the individuals discretion.!

[Gill W]

I think that was in answer to a question, when he was pressed to respond?

But the messaging is becoming muddy because Zahawi is now saying masks are ‘expected’ rather than at the individuals discretion

[towny44]

I think that was in answer to a question, when he was pressed to respond?

But the messaging is becoming muddy because Zahawi is now saying masks are ‘expected’ rather than at the individuals discretion

Why do you get so het up about the minutiae of the comments by govt ministers, and critique any apparent differences. I want my govt to be flexible and nimble enough to change when circumstances.inducate a change is needed. You seem to delight in highlighting any change as a U turn, which you then judge as weak governance, and promptly view this as a major change of policy.

[david63]

t is clear that all legal restrictions are to go - no limits on numbers meeting indoors our out. Nightclubs opening at full capacity. Cinema and theatre back to full capacity. End social distancing rule and legal obligation to wear face covering to go.

It sounds suspiciously like ‘ditching all measures’ to me!

Perhaps you, along with almost everyone else in the media, missed or have chosen to ignore this paragraph

We will end the 1 metre plus rule on social distancing, and the legal obligation to wear a face covering, although guidance will suggest where you might choose to do so, especially when cases are rising, and where you come into contact with people you don’t normally meet in enclosed places, such as obviously crowded public transport.

[Manoverboard]

Bit of a major omission is that, it seems to undermine everything Gill posted

[Stephen]

Forgive me if I’m wrong,but did Boris not say that Mask wearing on public transport,especially in busy periods should still be worn but on late night buses etc when it’s quiet this could be relaxed.? All upto the individuals discretion.!

Like anyone will listen to that.
Come the nineteenth it’ll be like the start of brands hatch, the flag will rise and almost everybody will be off as though the last eighteen months never happened.

[towny44]

Like anyone will listen to that.
Come the nineteenth it’ll be like the start of brands hatch, the flag will rise and almost everybody will be off as though the last eighteen months never happened.

O ye of little faith in your fellow citizens, there will be some who act as you portray, but they will be a very small minority.

[oldbluefox]

t is clear that all legal restrictions are to go - no limits on numbers meeting indoors our out. Nightclubs opening at full capacity. Cinema and theatre back to full capacity. End social distancing rule and legal obligation to wear face covering to go.

It sounds suspiciously like ‘ditching all measures’ to me!

Perhaps you, along with almost everyone else in the media, missed or have chosen to ignore this paragraph

We will end the 1 metre plus rule on social distancing, and the legal obligation to wear a face covering, although guidance will suggest where you might choose to do so, especially when cases are rising, and where you come into contact with people you don’t normally meet in enclosed places, such as obviously crowded public transport.

That hardly marries up with Gill's idea that Boris is chucking all restrictions out of the window. But if he does she will say he is being reckless and if he doesn't he is doing a U turn. Can't win in the eyes of some can he?

[Gill W]

Why do you get so het up about the minutiae of the comments by govt ministers, and critique any apparent differences. I want my govt to be flexible and nimble enough to change when circumstances.inducate a change is needed. You seem to delight in highlighting any change as a U turn, which you then judge as weak governance, and promptly view this as a major change of policy.

Het up

We're in the midle of a global pandemic, so it shouldn't be too much to ask for clear messaging from the government. When this doesn't happen, why shouldn't I talk about it? It must be better than sticking my head in the sand and pretending that all is well. Believe me, there is no delight going on here.

We are in a complex quickly changing situation, so I think we'd all like a nimble and flexible government. If that is the government's intention, to quickly react to any changes, then that should be the messaging - that instructions and actions could change at very short notice.

What we have is a government that says they are going to be driven by data, but it ends up being driven by dates, keeps on repeating the dogma of Terminus Day until it is embedded in people's minds as a certainty. Last weeks briefing would have been an ideal opportunity to clearly state the his Terminus Day wasn't certain in view of a deteriorating situation - instead he doubled down on all the restrictions that would no longer be legally required on 19th. Again, this makes people think that Freedom Day is a real thing and is certain to happen

The messaging is very poor, and under the circumstances, and sudden changes now, will be perceived as weakness

]
Perhaps you, along with almost everyone else in the media, missed or have chosen to ignore this paragraph

We will end the 1 metre plus rule on social distancing, and the legal obligation to wear a face covering, although guidance will suggest where you might choose to do so, especially when cases are rising, and where you come into contact with people you don’t normally meet in enclosed places, such as obviously crowded public transport.

Guidance is not a legally enforceable rule. Very wishy washy in a public health emergency

Bit of a major omission is that, it seems to undermine everything Gill posted

It doesn't undermine me at all. As I said guidance is not legally enforceable instructions

That hardly marries up with Gill's idea that Boris is chucking all restrictions out of the window. But if he does she will say he is being reckless and if he doesn't he is doing a U turn. Can't win in the eyes of some can he?

What is being discussed is guidance not restrictions. Guidance is the thing now. Not restrictions - they are gone.

You are wrong about what I will say. I will say that he's been reckless promoting his Terminus Day and he shouldn't have got himself into a situation for a U turn by over promising (again)

[towny44]

Gill, why cannot you understand that in a possible changing situation the govt will need to be able to modify its tactics as things develop, therefore it is impossible to provide you with unchanging clear messaging.

[Onelife]

Boris Johnson... “scientists are absolutely clear that we have severed the link between infection and serious disease and death”

Sir Patrick Vallance. He has stated categorically concerning the impact of vaccination on the infection rate that "it's a weakened link, not a completely broken link".

[Mervyn and Trish]

A survey suggests the population are divided on whether they want relaxation on 19 June or not. So the government are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

You can be sure that whichever way they turn those who are happy will be quiet and unquoted by the media. Those who are upset will be loud and widely publicised.

Sir Hindsight and some on this forum are no doubt already practising their criticism for either outcome.

On the subject of data or dates I think the delay of 4 weeks shows clearly the government are driven by data, whatever labels the media choose to put on freedom day, doomsday or whatever they're going to call it next.

As far as what scientists are saying think of a number and I can quote you that number of scientists giving completely different views.

This pandemic is new. There is no right answer.

[Kendhni]

We are in a complex quickly changing situation, so I think we'd all like a nimble and flexible government. If that is the government's intention, to quickly react to any changes, then that should be the messaging - that instructions and actions could change at very short notice.

Indeed, we need to stop the soundbite politics, that Johnson uses, along with his gung ho attitude - no matter how many times Johnson tries to create the connection, he is no Churchill, and never will be.

This is reality, and I am pleased to see Johnson, and other members of government, have been softening the message over the last few days to bring it back inline with scientific advice. While I hope as much lockdown as a possible can be lifted as quickly as possible, this isn't over yet and sensible measures still need to be enforced at governmental level (the wider public cannot be trusted to act responsibly - that has been proven time-and-time again).

[towny44]

While I hope as much lockdown as a possible can be lifted as quickly as possible, this isn't over yet and sensible measures still need to be enforced at governmental level (the wider public cannot be trusted to act responsibly - that has been proven time-and-time again).

Who is this "wider public", the media of course highlight every infringement they can, but my observation of most of the people I see, is that they are observing the mask wearing and social distancing rules as best they can. Other than the infringements I see on the news most others are behaving sensibly, and I see no reason to believe this will change much after the 19th July.

[Gill W]

Gill, why cannot you understand that in a possible changing situation the govt will need to be able to modify its tactics as things develop, therefore it is impossible to provide you with unchanging clear messaging.

I do understand that, because I have the time and inclination to research and and monitor.

However, a lot of people don't have a lot of time, and only listen to the Johnson briefings. Johnson has been going on about his Terminus Day for weeks, so those people think it's a done deal. Many think it's completely back to normal on 19th. He's also made a big fuss about easing of restrictions being irreversible, so people think there won't be any more restrictions, ever. Johnson needs to adjust his messaging to those people to make it clear that there can't be certainties and that events will mean that instructions will change at short notice, and we might even need to go back to more restrictions.

Boris Johnson... “scientists are absolutely clear that we have severed the link between infection and serious disease and death”

Sir Patrick Vallance. He has stated categorically concerning the impact of vaccination on the infection rate that "it's a weakened link, not a completely broken link".

On Marr, Zahawi was trying to convince us that 'sever' and 'weaken' meant exactly the same thing!

Who is this "wider public", the media of course highlight every infringement they can, but my observation of most of the people I see, is that they are observing the mask wearing and social distancing rules as best they can. Other than the infringements I see on the news most others are behaving sensibly, and I see no reason to believe this will change much after the 19th July.

It you are like me, you probably go out mid week during the day, when it's mostly codgers who are out and about. This group are more likely to carry on as they are, but in the weekends and evenings, it's apparently a different ball game.

.

[Kendhni]

It you are like me, you probably go out mid week during the day, when it's mostly codgers who are out and about. This group are more likely to carry on as they are, but in the weekends and evenings, it's apparently a different ball game.

It appears the great trustworthy public were out in force today
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/vaccine-site- ... 59364.html

[screwy]

I would argue that they’re not the great trustworthy but Idiots.!

[oldbluefox]

No doubt they will be figuring in the infection rates very shortly if not before.

[Gill W]

Not to mention the scenes in London.

I hope the bloke with the flare up his backside in Leicester Square isn’t going to be expected to use his own informed judgement

[towny44]

Not to mention the scenes in London.

I hope the bloke with the flare up his backside in Leicester Square isn’t going to be expected to use his own informed judgement

But all of these idiots still only represent a minor percentage of the public, and it is very likely that they would behave stupidly regardless of what the govt say, even if they actually watch any of the briefings or news bulletins or read any newspapers.
I find it very disappointing that so many sensible posters on here, are still susceptible to the tabloid headlines, whether it's the Daily Mail or the BBC or Sky TV.