Current Affairs

[oldbluefox]

Just to be clear you feel there would have been no more deaths in the older generation than there have been had Boris vaccinated the working population instead. In effect this would have rendered them more dispensable but would have protected those who were working.
I know why you said what you did but deaths in the older generation would have increased as an unintended consequence.

[Quizzical Bob]

Interesting article: https://www.health.org.uk/publications/ ... oved-wrong

A potential 1.5 million years of life lost due to COVID!!

Interesting historically but parts of it are out of date due to widespread vaccination.

I would contend that much more living has been lost due to lockdown.

True, the article is very clear about its methodology and time period that was covered - butt hat still does not change the accumulation of years lost ... widespread vaccination does not reduce the figure at all, it might just increase more slowly (hopefully).

I suppose that would depend on what priority to give to your definition of 'living'. I have missed holidays and eating out (although we found some great new carry outs and restaurants delivering food). On the other hand I have cherished all the extra time I have had to spend with close family, friends and neighbours (the last two obviously being within the guidelines provided). For others maybe the inability to imbibe copious amounts of their preferred liquid personality is what they miss

For much of the lockdown that was not possible despite my children and grandchildren living within a mile of two of our house. Indeed, for long periods we were not even allowed to travel more than a couple of miles from our house. Until yesterday I was not legally permitted to take my grandchildren to see their 101 year old great-grandmother who lives over a hundred miles away. Yes, it was complicated what with limited numbers allowed indoors and all that.

Alcohol does not play a large part in my life but I sympathise with those for whom it is important.

My kind of living involves travelling be it local, national or international. Going to the theatre or a concert. Going to a football match with my grandson before he leaves home and is off to university. And that's before we get anywhere near cruising.

From the business point of view, meeting customers, designing new projects for them, finding and developing sales agents abroad. We are now so much in debt and have had to release all the staff so I am now forced to forget all about any sort of retirement and carry on working until my weary life ends. So not only have I lost the last year and a half, I have also lost whatever years are left to me.

[Kendhni]

Just to be clear you feel there would have been no more deaths in the older generation than there have been had Boris vaccinated the working population instead. In effect this would have rendered them more dispensable but would have protected those who were working.

Why would you think I would feel that?
You are trying to imply something that was never part of the post.

[Kendhni]

From the business point of view, meeting customers, designing new projects for them, finding and developing sales agents abroad. We are now so much in debt and have had to release all the staff so I am now forced to forget all about any sort of retirement and carry on working until my weary life ends. So not only have I lost the last year and a half, I have also lost whatever years are left to me.

Sorry to hear that and sadly, I am sure there are many in the same boat. I similarly have changed my retirement plans (however I do still hope to retire).
However, remember I was the only one that suggested an alternative plan to get people back into work and get the economy going. At the time I thought that was important and I still believe it could have produced a better result than today. However there is no way to prove it one way or the other.

[Ray B]

There are defamation laws in this country, so i feel a media outlet like the BBC would be rigorous in making sure what they are publishing has a basis in fact, for example reading the original Whats App message .

They can report that Cummings is alleging this or that, so maybe as they are only reporting the alleged allegations by Cummings they get around it that way.
What ever he says, it's manner from heaven to the opposition.

[Ray B]

Q Bob, we all look forward to the day of retirement with the hope of having just enough money to enjoy our diminishing time on this earth. I do hope good fortune will favor you in the not to distant future. Good luck.

[Quizzical Bob]

From the business point of view, meeting customers, designing new projects for them, finding and developing sales agents abroad. We are now so much in debt and have had to release all the staff so I am now forced to forget all about any sort of retirement and carry on working until my weary life ends. So not only have I lost the last year and a half, I have also lost whatever years are left to me.

Sorry to hear that and sadly, I am sure there are many in the same boat. I similarly have changed my retirement plans (however I do still hope to retire).
However, remember I was the only one that suggested an alternative plan to get people back into work and get the economy going. At the time I thought that was important and I still believe it could have produced a better result than today. However there is no way to prove it one way or the other.

Thanks for your understanding Ken.

I can see the merits in your alternative plan but unfortunately getting the young vaccinated was never going to be easy. Even now after all the deaths and suffering and dire warnings many of them are reluctant. Short of forcing them to bend over and shoving the needle up their bottoms* I can't see have mass vaccination could have been made compulsory.

* It is intramuscular after all

[Quizzical Bob]

Q Bob, we all look forward to the day of retirement with the hope of having just enough money to enjoy our diminishing time on this earth. I do hope good fortune will favor you in the not to distant future. Good luck.

Thanks Ray but I'm afraid that there's little time and even less money to be able to turn things around.

[Onelife]

Just wondering…since the lifting of restrictions and the anticipated increase in infections to follow will you be more or less inclined to frequent a pub, restaurant, theatre, shop etc?

The reason I ask is that for the past few weeks I along with half a dozen of my neighbours have been indulging ourselves with a pint or two at our local pub. I had a phone call this morning and was informed that two of the group have decided to stop going to the pub (whilst infections are on the increase). I hadn’t given it much thought but have now decided that caution is probably the best course of action.

[Gill W]

And yet you now believe every word because it suits your bash Boris agenda.

Just because you have a 'bash Starmer' agenda, which you deploy at every opportunity, it doesn't mean everybody is the same as you. Although I do think that Johnson is vile on many levels, I don't bang on about it all the time. I'm here to discuss current affairs - it's hardly my fault that the news rarely reports something that Johnson is making a good job of doing.

I don't necessarily believe everything that Cummings is saying, but on balance, looking at all known factors, what he said in the interview has the ring of truth

Interesting article: https://www.health.org.uk/publications/ ... oved-wrong

A potential 1.5 million years of life lost due to COVID!!

I saw that earlier today, but haven't read it in full as yet.

I've always thought, that just because someone is over 80 with a pre-existing condition, it doesn't mean they are at deaths door. People can live good lives for years with various health conditions. Whether people died 'of' or 'with' Covid (never understood why this seems a big thing, it has never been a talking point with any other illness) , many have died years before their time.

Another figure I struggle with is the idea buried in the detail that the over 75s lost an average of 20 years of life. Is the average life expectancy 95 these days?

Per ONS life expectancy calculator

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... 2019-06-07

A man currently aged 75 has a life expectancy of 87, with a 1 in 4 chance of living to 92 and a one in ten chance of living to 96. He has a 2.6% chance of living to 100

A woman currently aged 75 has a life expectancy of 89 with a 1 in 4 chance of living to 94 and a one in 10 chance of living to 97 with a 4.2% chance of living to 100

[towny44]

Yes I did ... but not for the reasons you are trying to imply.

The outcome would still have led to even higher elderly deaths than Boris's performance produced.

Can you back that random statement up with any evidence other than conjecture?

Quite easy I would have thought. If we had adopted your policy then death rates and hospitalizations during the second quarter of this year would have probably been at the same level as quarter 1, and that even allows for the fact that they were tapering off in March.
I haven't bothered checking the figures, but I would have thought that anyone with a modicum of intelligence could see that.

[Onelife]

I’ve just tried the life expectancy calculator…I entered in that I was 67 living in a leaky caravan and in receipt of food parcels and it’s just come back with a list of funeral directors

[Onelife]

but I would have thought that anyone with a modicum of intelligence could see that.
[/quote]

I was going to agree with ken until I read that

[Gill W]

Just wondering…since the lifting of restrictions and the anticipated increase in infections to follow will you be more or less inclined to frequent a pub, restaurant, theatre, shop etc?

The reason I ask is that for the past few weeks I along with half a dozen of my neighbours have been indulging ourselves with a pint or two at our local pub. I had a phone call this morning and was informed that two of the group have decided to stop going to the pub (whilst infections are on the increase). I hadn’t given it much thought but have now decided that caution is probably the best course of action.

Since April, I've probably been to more cafes and pubs than in any previous 3 month period. . A combination of wanting to get out while I can and wanting to help the hospitality business

It's been great and I've really enjoyed it.

I doubt if will go anywhere this week as we have several deliveries scheduled. People are reporting that the majority seem to still be wearing masks, so I intend to go out at my next opportunity, to see for myself. Hopefully I'll get a few more coffees down my neck, but I'm mindful that cases are markedly rising round here, so I will probably have to rein back on my outings due to the growing wave. Which I'm not happy about, but, it's only to be expected in an unpredictable thing like a pandemic.

I've got the theatre booked for September, carried forward from last year. No idea whether we'll go, will decide nearer the time

[Kendhni]

I’ve just tried the life expectancy calculator…I entered in that I was 67 living in a leaky caravan and in receipt of food parcels and it’s just come back with a list of funeral directors

Somewhere on the web is a death calculator. You give it a load of information (if you are brave enough) and it calculates the date and time of your death. I tried it and found out I had gone to sing in the choir immortal 2 years prior.

[Kendhni]

Just wondering…since the lifting of restrictions and the anticipated increase in infections to follow will you be more or less inclined to frequent a pub, restaurant, theatre, shop etc?

We have started drifting out back to restaurants. However I have walked out of a couple when I saw people walking about without masks (customers and staff) or too many people. Probably just a perception, but I feel less safe in such places so we just went elsewhere.

[Kendhni]

IMay just be gossip at the minute, but it looks like Johnson is finding a way to fund a pay rise for Healthcare staff and more.
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/uk-na ... 04258.html

I was expecting an increase in taxation and this seems reasonable but needs to be part of a wider package to ensure that everyone contributes something.

[Kendhni]

In other news
https://uk.yahoo.com/sports/news/norweg ... 42123.html

Damned right too. As a mega fan of womens topless volleyball it is imperative the team is presented in regulation outfits.

[Onelife]

Hi Gill…as infections start to take hold, I’ll be hoping we see an uptake of facemask wearing which in Ludlow seems to be a bit hit and miss at present.

It’s my wife’s Birthday this weekend and we had planned to go for a meal at the ‘Feathers’ but we have now decided to have a picnic at ‘Carding Mill Valley’ (weather permitting). We are taking the attitude that for the next two months our lives and health are in our hands in our attempt of avoiding ending up on the “with underlying conditions” register.

It will be a price worth paying if Boris's gamble pays off.

[Stephen]

In other news
https://uk.yahoo.com/sports/news/norweg ... 42123.html

Damned right too. As a mega fan of womens topless volleyball it is imperative the team is presented in regulation outfits.

No, surely not

[Mervyn and Trish]

Re 11285 I don't bash Boris because love him or hate him he has an incredibly difficult job balancing the directly opposing demands of the different factions and for better or worse makes decisions every day.

I do bash Starmer because he said he would not oppose for opposition sake but in fact has done nothing but. He's not made a useful contribution or positive suggestion but just snipes from the sidelines whichever way Boris jumps. He's even run out of original soundbites and now parrots "reckless" at every turn. If Boris had put back reopening another 4 weeks no doubt that would have been reckless with jobs, the economy and mental health.

If you want Boris gone you need a credible alternative and Starmer doesn't offer it.

[barney]

Re 11285 I don't bash Boris because love him or hate him he has an incredibly difficult job balancing the directly opposing demands of the different factions and for better or worse makes decisions every day.

I do bash Starmer because he said he would not oppose for opposition sake but in fact has done nothing but. He's not made a useful contribution or positive suggestion but just snipes from the sidelines whichever way Boris jumps. He's even run out of original soundbites and now parrots "reckless" at every turn. If Boris had put back reopening another 4 weeks no doubt that would have been reckless with jobs, the economy and mental health.

If you want Boris gone you need a credible alternative and Starmer doesn't offer it.

Rishi Sunak is

[Onelife]

In other news
https://uk.yahoo.com/sports/news/norweg ... 42123.html

Damned right too. As a mega fan of womens topless volleyball it is imperative the team is presented in regulation outfits.

No, surely not

I place beach volleyball at the same skill level as building sand castles.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Re 11285 I don't bash Boris because love him or hate him he has an incredibly difficult job balancing the directly opposing demands of the different factions and for better or worse makes decisions every day.

I do bash Starmer because he said he would not oppose for opposition sake but in fact has done nothing but. He's not made a useful contribution or positive suggestion but just snipes from the sidelines whichever way Boris jumps. He's even run out of original soundbites and now parrots "reckless" at every turn. If Boris had put back reopening another 4 weeks no doubt that would have been reckless with jobs, the economy and mental health.

If you want Boris gone you need a credible alternative and Starmer doesn't offer it.

Rishi Sunak is

I agree. And he's got more chance than Sir Hindsight.

[Onelife]

Re 11285 I don't bash Boris because love him or hate him he has an incredibly difficult job balancing the directly opposing demands of the different factions and for better or worse makes decisions every day.

I do bash Starmer because he said he would not oppose for opposition sake but in fact has done nothing but. He's not made a useful contribution or positive suggestion but just snipes from the sidelines whichever way Boris jumps. He's even run out of original soundbites and now parrots "reckless" at every turn. If Boris had put back reopening another 4 weeks no doubt that would have been reckless with jobs, the economy and mental health.

If you want Boris gone you need a credible alternative and Starmer doesn't offer it.

Rishi Sunak is

I agree. And he's got more chance than Sir Hindsight.

You can get 6/4 about Boris being replaced as prime minister in 2021… not that those odds would tempt me, but give me the same odds to be rid of him in 2022 then I would lump on.