Current Affairs

[Gill W]

At least Johnsons finally has a plan of some sorts, even if it is just to increase taxation. As far as improving services and spending? I suspect he will play his usual game ... just play it by ear in the hope that it works out in the end and have a scapegoat ready for when it doesn't.

His manifesto pledge was to not increase tax or National Insurance. He also said when he was elected in December 2019 that he had a plan for social care ready to go.

If the plan was ready to go, then he clearly knew that he was going to raise NI.

Unless this is a different plan, which begs the question - ‘what happened to the original plan’.

Whatever the plan is, it has no detail. I know people will say ‘well Starmer has no plan’. The truth is Starmer doesn’t need a plan at the moment. He’s in opposition and there’s no election in the offing. Instead of fretting about Starmer, they’d be better off asking how this tax increase will ‘fix the crisis in social care once and for all’ as promised by Johnson. Johnson’s the one that needs a plan - and there’s no detail about how this tax hike will fix the crisis.

[towny44]

Ken, I am sure the quote is what big pharma would like to happen, but even in the US there is a growing reluctance to pay big pharma's asking prices. The covid pandemic has shown what can be achieved when BF cooperate, and IMO the future will be cooperation to produce medicines that are needed, which will be mainly in the 3rd world, rather than the ones that will make big profits by targeting western cosmetic ailments.
Or at least I hope that will be the way forward.

[towny44]

Gill, you have not changed one iota, for someone who claims not to be a rabid Tory hater, you continue to criticise everything the govt does at every opportunity, welcome back by the way.

[Kendhni]

His manifesto pledge was to not increase tax or National Insurance. He also said when he was elected in December 2019 that he had a plan for social care ready to go.

If the plan was ready to go, then he clearly knew that he was going to raise NI.

Unless this is a different plan, which begs the question - ‘what happened to the original plan’.

I think we now realise that when Johnson says 'Oven ready' what he means is it hasn't even reached the stage of being half baked.

Whatever the plan is, it has no detail. I know people will say ‘well Starmer has no plan’. The truth is Starmer doesn’t need a plan at the moment. He’s in opposition and there’s no election in the offing. Instead of fretting about Starmer, they’d be better off asking how this tax increase will ‘fix the crisis in social care once and for all’ as promised by Johnson. Johnson’s the one that needs a plan - and there’s no detail about how this tax hike will fix the crisis.

This has always been the privilege of opposition parties, they don't need a plan, they just need to 'oppose'. Unfortunately Johnson is well known for never having a plan and winging it in the hope that it all plays out OK in the end. Sometimes it will, in which case he will claim his 'plan' worked, others times it won't in which case he will have his scapegoats lined up for the slaughter.

[david63]

His manifesto pledge was to not increase tax or National Insurance.

That was pre Covid. Covid changes everything

[Stephen]

So what is happening with the billions we are supposed to be saving having left the EU. I thought a large chunk of that was supposed to go towards health care, before COVID came along.

We are still paying into the EU coffers, Stephen as part of the divorce bill.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/51110096
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-lia ... 021-07-08/

Should have got a better lawyer

[Kendhni]

Ken, I am sure the quote is what big pharma would like to happen, but even in the US there is a growing reluctance to pay big pharma's asking prices. The covid pandemic has shown what can be achieved when BF cooperate, and IMO the future will be cooperation to produce medicines that are needed, which will be mainly in the 3rd world, rather than the ones that will make big profits by targeting western cosmetic ailments.
Or at least I hope that will be the way forward.

The talk was given by the US equivalent of our regulators (although he had since left the post). If it wasn't so serious his talk was quite comical in places because apparently he is known for being brutally honest and very accurate - and several other delegates (medical, pharma and insurance) agreed this was a problem. You have to remember as well that this is in a country that individuals have to pay for their medical treatment. I think that is maybe why he did a section focussing on the UKs NHS and how it would have to change.

While it would be nice if drug companies would operate as you suggest, I suspect that once COVID has been dealt with manufacturers will be looking to recoup costs and increase profits again. High profit first world medicine will continue to take precedence over low profit third world medicine. I suppose there are too many shareholders and pension plans that would lose out badly if that were not the case.

[Gill W]

Gill, you have not changed one iota, for someone who claims not to be a rabid Tory hater, you continue to criticise everything the govt does at every opportunity, welcome back by the way.

Don’t worry, I only spoke up because it seemed you and the other forum members seemed to be under the impression the the £86000 cap covered everything, and that you wouldn’t have to spend a penny more than £86000 during your whole care home stay.

I won’t be commenting on a regular basis and your comment to me is a perfect illustration of why not.

You obviously didn’t actually read my comments. I wasn’t criticising the government. I was giving information (which you seem to have ignored) and was asking what the actual plan was, as I can’t see how what has been announced actually ‘fixes’ social care.

I grew tired of the anger and the constant attempts to put me down, so,I’m not going to subject myself to all that again. I will disappear again very soon.

[Gill W]

That was pre Covid. Covid changes everything

Absolutely it does.

I can understand why the NHS needs more money - although there is no detail on exactly what this new levy will be spent on, and what exactly what conditions will have to be met before the money can be switched to care. And there is no detail on why fixing social care could previously done with no new money and now requires new money.

[Ranchi]

https://www.cruise-community.me.uk/post ... 2&p=307429

Yes Gill, it is certainly easier to open bank accounts online where you just tick the box to confirm that the bank has given you all of the info & therefore is in the clear should anything go wrong in the future. The reason I went into the bank was to close a number of accounts. Over the years I had had a number of 1 year regular saver accs. now empty. The removal of these accs - which could not be done online, was the main reason for my visit to the bank.

[towny44]

That was pre Covid. Covid changes everything

Absolutely it does.

I can understand why the NHS needs more money - although there is no detail on exactly what this new levy will be spent on, and what exactly what conditions will have to be met before the money can be switched to care. And there is no detail on why fixing social care could previously done with no new money and now requires new money.

I would have thought that the problems created by covid would have led most people to accept that no govt can plan ahead with certainty, and they will need to be flexible in the way they operate. For anyone who demands certainty there is always Nth Korea as a possibility, or one of the less democratic ex Soviet states like Belarus.
For me step one in sorting social care is to increase govt taxes, which has now been done, initial spending to be biased in favour of the NHS for at least 3 years, so taking the recent experiences of the banking crisis, brexit, covid and climate change into account, it seems eminently sensible for the govt not to make firm plans now, which might require amending due to any future crisis, especially when the media and left wing politicians take delight in highlighting govt changes of plan.

[allatc]

That was pre Covid. Covid changes everything

Absolutely it does.

I can understand why the NHS needs more money - although there is no detail on exactly what this new levy will be spent on, and what exactly what conditions will have to be met before the money can be switched to care. And there is no detail on why fixing social care could previously done with no new money and now requires new money.

I don't recall any previous government saying long term care could be fixed without additional money. The reason it hasn't happened over decades is because the incumbent governments over time realized that the only way to fix it would be to raise additional taxes.
I'm just a bit disappointed that in the tax raid the online retailers that pay little tax haven't been targeted.

[barney]

My mother in law is currently in a care home with advanced dementia.
She’s paid, so far, a tad over £150k.
There’s about £50k left so I asked the home owner what happens when the money is gone.
She replied that she couldn’t guarantee that mum could stay there, and it would be down to the Devon council.
They will find her a place in a cheaper home?
What a way to treat sick people.
Had she contracted a different illness, the health services take responsibility.
Because she got dementia, they don’t want to know.
It’s actually disgusting when you look at it.

[oldbluefox]

Meanwhile the feckless and those who have made benefit culture their chosen lifestyle will continue to be housed in that care home, their stays having been subsidised over this time by your mother. It is a disgrace. We were told once the money ran out we would have to help pay for her stay from our own finances. Sounds like the liberal left think this is satisfactory and at last something is being done about it. It may not be perfect but it's a start.

[oldbluefox]

Don’t worry, I only spoke up because it seemed you and the other forum members seemed to be under the impression the the £86000 cap covered everything, and that you wouldn’t have to spend a penny more than £86000 during your whole care home stay.

I do wish you wouldn't speak for other forum members especially when you get it so hopelessly wrong. I think we all knew what the implications were.

[towny44]

Don’t worry, I only spoke up because it seemed you and the other forum members seemed to be under the impression the the £86000 cap covered everything, and that you wouldn’t have to spend a penny more than £86000 during your whole care home stay.

Gill, Foxys post got me thinking and can you please point out where anything I posted about the social care proposals would have led you to assume I thought the £86000 covered the total care home costs?

[Mervyn and Trish]

Don’t worry, I only spoke up because it seemed you and the other forum members seemed to be under the impression the the £86000 cap covered everything, and that you wouldn’t have to spend a penny more than £86000 during your whole care home stay.

Gill, Foxys post got me thinking and can you please point out where anything I posted about the social care proposals would have led you to assume I thought the £86000 covered the total care home costs?

I am similarly baffled. I wonder why some forum members seem to consistently assume that those who disagree with them must be ill informed idiots. It goes right back to the assumption that those who voted to leave the EU only did so because they didn't understand.

But back to the basic issue. I have no doubt these plans are not perfect. But at least Bojo has had the courage to begin to tackle the festering sore that so many before him, of all parties, have avoided.

[david63]

i am not entirely sure that continually throwing money at the NHS is the right thing to do. The NHS will just soak up whater money it gets but, in my opinion there are more fundamental issues within the NHS that need tackling but I doubt that anyone can actually tackle them

[oldbluefox]

There is a lot of waste and mismanagement in the NHS. My experiences over the past couple of years have left me baffled as to what exactly is going on. My treatment has been excellent but in so many ways the resources could have been more efficiently used eg do I really need three letters for the same appointment?

[Kendhni]

i am not entirely sure that continually throwing money at the NHS is the right thing to do. The NHS will just soak up whater money it gets but, in my opinion there are more fundamental issues within the NHS that need tackling but I doubt that anyone can actually tackle them

It is a typical public sector body, too many non-contributors building little empires around themselves for no other reason than to generate paperwork for front end staff to waste time on. The time to address it was over 20 years ago but neither the Tory's or Labour had the courage to do it. You are right it is just a money sponge.

On the other hand when the NHS hands out contracts then those applying overcharge them. So the civil servants behind signing off are crassly incompetent, have no idea of how much things cost, or they are taking backhanders. Who knows?

[Gill W]

I don't recall any previous government saying long term care could be fixed without additional money. The reason it hasn't happened over decades is because the incumbent governments over time realized that the only way to fix it would be to raise additional taxes.
I'm just a bit disappointed that in the tax raid the online retailers that pay little tax haven't been targeted.

Johnson promised in his manifesto that he wouldn’t raise taxes or NI. On the day that he was elected he said that he had a plan ready to go to fix social care. Therefore, it was implicit that, whatever the plan was, it wasn’t going to cost the tax payer anything extra - which seemed very unlikely.

You are right, successive governments have shied away from this subject for years, it’s a demographic time bomb. We are living longer and the large baby boom generation is now retiring and many will need care. So the workers of today have got to support a growing population in care. I think the levy should have been in the form of income tax, so the burden wasn’t solely on the working population. But there is no real detail on what will happen to the money when it finally reaches the care sector. I just can’t see how things will be improved if there isn’t a proper plan.

Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance ( and all that)

My mother in law is currently in a care home with advanced dementia.
She’s paid, so far, a tad over £150k.
There’s about £50k left so I asked the home owner what happens when the money is gone.
She replied that she couldn’t guarantee that mum could stay there, and it would be down to the Devon council.
They will find her a place in a cheaper home?
What a way to treat sick people.
Had she contracted a different illness, the health services take responsibility.
Because she got dementia, they don’t want to know.
It’s actually disgusting when you look at it.

This is what I was saying yesterday- they is no detail on how these plans will make life better for the end user. More and more people will be in your mum’s situation- surely people should have dignity and peace of mind in their final years. Your mum would be very stressed if she found herself having to move at this point. Awful way to treat people, I hope she can keep her place where she lives now

[Stephen]

i am not entirely sure that continually throwing money at the NHS is the right thing to do. The NHS will just soak up whater money it gets but, in my opinion there are more fundamental issues within the NHS that need tackling but I doubt that anyone can actually tackle them

Waste (money) being one of them from what Mrs S tells me sometimes.

[towny44]

i am not entirely sure that continually throwing money at the NHS is the right thing to do. The NHS will just soak up whater money it gets but, in my opinion there are more fundamental issues within the NHS that need tackling but I doubt that anyone can actually tackle them

I agree, my 86 yr old sister died recently after waiting for over 7 hours for an ambulance, after falling awkwardly while getting washed in the morning. The delay in care is currently subject to an inquiry initiated by the coroner, but the family feel certain that with prompt hospitalisation she would have been able to recover.

[Stephen]

Sorry for your loss John.

[Manoverboard]

It's a difficult problem and that's for sure, my ideal would be ....

* All medical and mental causal treatments should be paid for by the State.

* Level 1 basic accommodation should also be free

* Levels 2 to 4 would introduce more luxury but should be paid for by whoever wishes to pay for it.

State and Union involvement should be axed, meddling without competence is far too expensive. A top to bottom reform therefore is needed and long overdue.

Income Tax may need to be raised but Pensioners should carry a lighter burden because they are living on taxed investments that were achieved by being financially responsible during their working lives. Some have limited investments but a percentage of the value of their houses, being partly unearned income, could have a notional charge made against this asset in order to fund the raising of the level of accommodation for the persons in the care home.

Yes it's a multi tier system but why not ... nothing in my life has been equal to everybody elses.