Current Affairs

[Kendhni]

It may well break UN and IL law but that is not to say theses laws can’t be changed. Those signed up to theses laws are the ones being most affected and would I suggest welcome a change to how these laws are being abused.

Could it not be argued that the ones 'most affected' are those that are trying to (ab)use those laws (that we were party to the creation of) to better their own lives or fleeing oppression, slavery and abuse? If you and your family lived in poverty would you not do everything you could to try to better that position? Most of the arguments against them seem to centre on the basis that they decrease our own wealth (despite empirical evidence showing otherwise) .. so, is it not hypocritical for a country where the majority of inhabitants are in the top 10% of earners in the world to try to ring fence their wealth?

I didn’t say anything about pushing their dinghy’s back out to sea, what I was suggesting was those entering the UK (and caught, whether by land or sea) should be sent back to the country from which they have fled. The harsh truth is that many of these asylum seekers are opportunists seeking better lives for themselves with no regard to those countries that have to support them in doing so.

Once we have reached a fair and negotiated quota then a one-way plane ticket will be the biggest deterrent in purchasing future dinghies. imo

I doubt if that would work, no more so than the death penalty being a deterrent to major crime. There will always be those that arrive illegally and the government even admits that it has no idea how many that covers ... and logic dictates that there is no way they can actually know. Arguably, increasing quotas could increase illegal immigration as well.

I am not pro illegal immigration, and I agree that some are opportunists, but we have to wake up to the fact that this is totally within our control, policing of our borders is now 100% our own responsibility and the application of international law is within our own courts ... the day of blaming everyone else is over. The inability of the government to deal with it, as per their promises, shows that they did not themselves understand the problem nor do they have any workable solutions.

[towny44]

Ken, How do you propose that we stop these illegal immigrants. Short of operating gunboats all along the French coast and forcing them to return to France, I cannot see what we could do.

You keep mentioning France ... why? They no longer have any legal or moral requirement to stop people who wish to emmigrate to a country that chose to sever all agreements without putting any other mechanism in place.

As others have commented once here the liberal judicial system seems to put stumbling blocks in the way of deporting them, even where we know their country of origin.

I have already answered that point, our system is totally 'dysfunctional' controlled by an incompetent government that continually fails to deliver on their promises. Even the government admits their system is 'dysfunctional'.

You continue to pontificate that it's our fault for taking back control of our borders but failing to do this, so let's have your contribution as to how you would stop over 1000 illegal channel crossings every day.

Your attempt at bombastic language does you no favours. I have already answered the question in what I think can be done. It is others with inane ideas that break international laws and other treaties, that we have signed up to, that need to rethink their ideas.

#OwnWhatYouVotedFor

As usual you accuse me of being at fault for your refusal to answer a simple question. But as it happens I don't consider that accusing you of pontificating in many of your posts, as being bombastic, you push your point of view down our throats at every opportunity, but when called out to provide a solution, you throw out accusations simply to try and exert your perceived superiority.

[Kendhni]

As usual you accuse me of being at fault for your refusal to answer a simple question. But as it happens I don't consider that accusing you of pontificating in many of your posts, as being bombastic, you push your point of view down our throats at every opportunity, but when called out to provide a solution, you throw out accusations simply to try and exert your perceived superiority.

BTW1: I didn't accuse you of anything - in fact I even said "I can see where you are coming from". So you start on a false premise.

I have already answered the question you posed ... maybe try reading some posts before responding and then consider answering your own question based on a level of reality that means not resorting to blaming others and ensuring we stand by international laws and obligations we helped define and are signatories to.

The fact that you are incapable of defending the stance you choose to take is your problem, no need to cry that the big bad man is defending his stance, after all it is you that keeps making things up and then reverting to form of having nothing more than strawmen and ad hominems, which is a recognisable sign that someone knows their point-of-view is little more than an unctuous potemkin.

BTW2: in your case it definitely isn't 'perceived'.

#OwnWhatYouVotedFor

[Kendhni]

They did do lots about it for years, but we chose to exclude ourselves from the rules (CEAS, Dublin III) that France was applying.

That’s what they’ve just said on South East News. We opted out of the agreement and there’s now no mechanism in place to send people back

That is one of the primary problems, we chose to exclude ourselves from previous agreements and made no attempt to replace those agreements with anything else. It's like a child refusing to eat their dinner and then crying like a baby because they are hungry. Despite grandiose promises from this government they have actually made our borders the weakest they have been. We have some 7500miles of coastline which is impossible to effectively police ... maybe they need to recreate the homeguard with a load of old Corporal Jones type characters standing guard

I know Patel has offered some £55m to the French to police their coasts, but that is an absolute pittance compared to the actual costs (£55m wouldn't even build 2 miles of motorway). Maybe if the French could send the bill for the full costs to the UK then the UK could complain if things did not improve, however even that would not stop illegal arrivals.

[david63]

Should we perhaps be looking at the migrant issue from a slightly different angle?

As I understand it the vast majority of these migrants are already illegal immigrants before they ever try to set foot on UK soil. The have all crossed one, if not more, border illegally so should it not be the responsibility of these other countries to prevent this happening in the first place - as is currently happening in Poland/Belarus?

As for taking control of our own borders we have never been able to patrol over 3k miles of coastline 24/7.

[Kendhni]

We had agreements similar to what you are suggesting, David. Curiously we chose not to enforce those on many occasions (in fact the EUs response to the immigration question on Cameron's shopping list was to tell him to enforce the laws currently at his disposal). We now do not have anything in place to replace those agreements. The government needs to get back to the negotiating table to secure help from other countries and put new agreements back in place.

Logically though this will only capture the illegal immigration that is detected - which is believed to be a fraction of the overall illegal immigration. As I previously suggested we need to look to resolve the underlying issues, but even that will never fully resolve the wider problem.

[Ranchi]

I see the PM is promising that the ‘trimming’ of HS2 plans will ‘ massively” benefit people across the North East and North West.’ By which he no doubt means Manchester and Leeds. In my youth both cities were a a good two hour drive south (& much longer by rail.)
Since marrying in Aberdeen I can honestly claim to have been married in the North East. I now describe my birth place as the north east of England.
It does irritate that such sloppy descriptors are used by UK government. (La Sturgeon’s ‘Yes’ referendum has not yet taken place.)
And don’t get me started on the MidlandNorthern Powerhouse!

[oldbluefox]

There's a lot of country and a good many towns and cities north of Manchester and Leeds. I certainly would not include them in the North East and North West bracket without including those areas of the country north of them. HS2 was not even going to stop at Carlisle.

[Ray B]

A bit of good news today. It looks like 9 M25 protesters will be enjoying Christmas inside the slammer having been given upto six months. Let's hope a few more will go inside to send the message that that is not the way to protest.

[Chalgrave4]

A bit of good news today. It looks like 9 M25 protesters will be enjoying Christmas inside the slammer having been given upto six months. Let's hope a few more will go inside to send the message that that is not the way to protest.

+*I think it may be more appropriate for them to be locked up until they are prepared to give an undertaking not to take part in or advocate any further disruptive action on pain of a substantial term inside if they break that undertaking.

Unheated cells and uncooked food would reduce their personal carbon footprint whilst inside

[Kendhni]

A bit of good news today. It looks like 9 M25 protesters will be enjoying Christmas inside the slammer having been given upto six months. Let's hope a few more will go inside to send the message that that is not the way to protest.

While I don't see it as 'good news', more 'sad' that some people felt that they had no other option, I can't see what else the courts could do against people that had clearly over stepped the mark.

[Mervyn and Trish]

They had the option to voice their views in a different way without committing contempt of court. Their argument is not with the ordinary people whose lives they have been disrupting. It's with the government. Maybe they should try blockading Downing Street or Parliament .

[Mervyn and Trish]

We're just back from two weeks in Madeira where we observed an oddity.

Back home a number of hospitality businesses have not reopened after Covid. Some staunch Remainers have been quick to blame this on a shortage of labour due to Brexit.

In Madeira a number of hospitality businesses have not reopened after Covid, apparently due to a shortage of labour. Did I miss the news that Portugal had also left the EU? Or is the Brexit argument convenient but wide of the mark?

[Manoverboard]

Eu & UK kids are not heading off to Madeira to work due to pandemic restrictions is my guess

[Ray B]

A bit of good news today. It looks like 9 M25 protesters will be enjoying Christmas inside the slammer having been given upto six months. Let's hope a few more will go inside to send the message that that is not the way to protest.

While I don't see it as 'good news', more 'sad' that some people felt that they had no other option, I can't see what else the courts could do against people that had clearly over stepped the mark.

There are other ways to present their protests to government, not causing serious disruptions to people's lives.
Merv's suggestion to block Downing Street or Parliament goes down well with me.

[Kendhni]

A bit of good news today. It looks like 9 M25 protesters will be enjoying Christmas inside the slammer having been given upto six months. Let's hope a few more will go inside to send the message that that is not the way to protest.

While I don't see it as 'good news', more 'sad' that some people felt that they had no other option, I can't see what else the courts could do against people that had clearly over stepped the mark.

There are other ways to present their protests to government, not causing serious disruptions to people's lives.
Merv's suggestion to block Downing Street or Parliament goes down well with me.

I agree that there are better ways, but I am not convinced that blocking up a city centre is any better than what they did.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Don't need to block a city centre. Just the gates to Parliament and Downing Street. Be interesting to see how long the police sit on their hands and let them do that like they did on the M25.

[Stephen]

We're just back from two weeks in Madeira where we observed an oddity.

Back home a number of hospitality businesses have not reopened after Covid. Some staunch Remainers have been quick to blame this on a shortage of labour due to Brexit.

In Madeira a number of hospitality businesses have not reopened after Covid, apparently due to a shortage of labour. Did I miss the news that Portugal had also left the EU? Or is the Brexit argument convenient but wide of the mark?

Did you go back to the bar where the four of us went that time

[CaroleF]

I read that some of them are going on a hunger strike. What is the point of that? Do they think the authorities are going to say - Oh dear we'd better let you out!

Carole

[oldbluefox]

I feel sure the prison authorities will have coped with that situation many times over.

[Mervyn and Trish]

We're just back from two weeks in Madeira where we observed an oddity.

Back home a number of hospitality businesses have not reopened after Covid. Some staunch Remainers have been quick to blame this on a shortage of labour due to Brexit.

In Madeira a number of hospitality businesses have not reopened after Covid, apparently due to a shortage of labour. Did I miss the news that Portugal had also left the EU? Or is the Brexit argument convenient but wide of the mark?

Did you go back to the bar where the four of us went that time

We did. That one survived, but with fewer staff and closed one day a week. That seems to be the pattern a number of suvivors have adopted
.

[Kendhni]

I read that some of them are going on a hunger strike. What is the point of that? Do they think the authorities are going to say - Oh dear we'd better let you out!

Carole

it is purely to keep their 'cause' in the media (oops there is that 'cause' word which generally means common sense has gone out the window. It is a very dangerous strategy because they either need to see it through, and this government isn't going to care if they do, or they will have to back down, like Ratcliffe.

[screwy]

Strange how sometimes a ‘Victim’ is found out to be an ‘Offender ‘ too.
I refer of course to Mr Rafik.

[Ray B]

Strange how sometimes a ‘Victim’ is found out to be an ‘Offender ‘ too.
I refer of course to Mr Rafik.

Ha Ha Ha, that one did rebound, but it was ten years ago. Pot kettle again comes to mind.
Moral of this story is check in the closet and make sure no skeletons exists.

[Mervyn and Trish]

My first thought was something to do with glass houses and throwing stones.