Current Affairs

[david63]

There are apparently 1.1m job vacancies in the UK

But how many unemployed are there? We should concentrate on getting our unemployed into jobs before using immigrants, illegal or otherwise, to fill these vacancies.

[Kendhni]

The best way of doing that is reducing benefits after a period of time; or base benefits on tax payments previously made; or make parents responsible for the results of their breeding program. Some families are now 4th generation benefit claimants. I have always said that for every £10 of benefits someone receives they should be made to contribute 1 hour of labour - there are plenty of jobs in the fields, picking up litter, sorting through recycling etc. that they could do which would be much more productive than allowing them to lie in bed doing nothing.

Our political leaders do little to improve the situation by trying to champion more programs that puts a group in their little 'cause' onto benefits or disability. Focus on what people can do, not what they can't do. I believe that, to some degree, the immigration crisis is being used to whip up hatred and take the blame for a lazy indigenous population.

About 1:3 in our company are non-nationals (not unusual across the industry), in fact our newest set of interns are all foreigners: Japan, Iran, India, Latvia and one chap from Hull (we struggle to understand a word he says ). I am proud to work in a cosmopolitan multi-cultural industry.

[Mervyn and Trish]

That was the problem pre Brexit and one of the factors that led to Brexit. Too many employers were ready to take on immigrant workers for very low pay, often illegally low because they knew they wouldn't complain, rather than training and paying living wages to UK workers.

[Kendhni]

It was good to see Johnson finally trying to take ownership of the current immigration crisis that he is basically responsible for (his 5 points being the basis of what we once had). Sad to see that Macron has turned him down. Part of the issue is that Johnson's gung ho attitude, and various comments from his politicians, has been disenfranchising those that he now needs help from .. we used to call it burning bridges. I hope Johnson can come to a proper negotiated settlement with our neighbours and put back in place policies and agreements he threw away (possibly unknowingly, given comments about his understanding of the situation). I just wonder how much it will cost us to buy back goodwill.

[Onelife]

There is no easy solution to the influx of migrants but one surely has to be found. We are undoubtably a dense overcrowded island which is borne out by our covid infection/death rates.

With regard to processing asylum seekers my suggestion would be to allow all present asylum seekers the right to stay. This would take the pressure off what is an overloaded asylum process which clearly isn’t working. The whole of Europe is plagued with this problem so the only way I can see this being resolved will be that each country takes an agreed number of migrants until each country has reached a negotiated quota. Once this is in place all affected countries should contribute both financially and in manpower to the stringent policing of the boarders of entry into Europe. The hard truth is that unless migrants see their passage to a better life is not through “we are her so you must take us “the sooner we will get on top of this situation.

I think we are fooling ourselves if we think the French have any intention of honouring any future agreement…”pas dans notre cour” is all they are concerned about.

[barney]

A bit of outside the box thinking but we may have missed an opportunity when COVID hit the cruise industry.
When Cruise and Maritime liquidated, our government could have bought a cruise ship at knockdown price and used it as an offshore processing centre.
Immediately process arrivals, legitimate and they are in, not legitimate and straight on the tender and back to France, dropped off conveniently on the beach they left from.

[barney]

There is no easy solution to the influx of migrants but one surely has to be found. We are undoubtably a dense overcrowded island which is borne out by our covid infection/death rates.

With regard to processing asylum seekers my suggestion would be to allow all present asylum seekers the right to stay. This would take the pressure off what is an overloaded asylum process which clearly isn’t working. The whole of Europe is plagued with this problem so the only way I can see this being resolved will be that each country takes an agreed number of migrants until each country has reached a negotiated quota. Once this is in place all affected countries should contribute both financially and in manpower to the stringent policing of the boarders of entry into Europe. The hard truth is that unless migrants see their passage to a better life is not through “we are her so you must take us “the sooner we will get on top of this situation.

I think we are fooling ourselves if we think the French have any intention of honouring any future agreement…”pas dans notre cour” is all they are concerned about.

Maybe we should look at the situation through the eyes of the French.
Firstly they have the embarrassment of the second and third political parties being very hard right wing, bordering on racist.
Then there was the Aukus embarrassment quickly followed by the problem in Algeria and Mali.
On top of that, they now have the worldwide embarrassment of migrants literally being willing to risk their lives to escape France.
Politically, they need a row with a neighbour to take their mind off the worldwide humiliation that they have suffered.

[Stephen]

There is no easy solution to the influx of migrants but one surely has to be found. We are undoubtably a dense overcrowded island which is borne out by our covid infection/death rates.

With regard to processing asylum seekers my suggestion would be to allow all present asylum seekers the right to stay. This would take the pressure off what is an overloaded asylum process which clearly isn’t working. The whole of Europe is plagued with this problem so the only way I can see this being resolved will be that each country takes an agreed number of migrants until each country has reached a negotiated quota. Once this is in place all affected countries should contribute both financially and in manpower to the stringent policing of the boarders of entry into Europe. The hard truth is that unless migrants see their passage to a better life is not through “we are her so you must take us “the sooner we will get on top of this situation.

I think we are fooling ourselves if we think the French have any intention of honouring any future agreement…”pas dans notre cour” is all they are concerned about.

Maybe we should look at the situation through the eyes of the French.
Firstly they have the embarrassment of the second and third political parties being very hard right wing, bordering on racist.
Then there was the Aukus embarrassment quickly followed by the problem in Algeria and Mali.
On top of that, they now have the worldwide embarrassment of migrants literally being willing to risk their lives to escape France.
Politically, they need a row with a neighbour to take their mind off the worldwide humiliation that they have suffered.

I don’t think Germany are doing anything at the moment

[towny44]

Germany had 76000 new covid cases yesterday, so their govt has its hands full with a likely Xmas lockdown, so it definitely does not need another immigration crisis.
Incidentally does it have a govt yet?

[Mervyn and Trish]

Germany had 76000 new covid cases yesterday, so their govt has its hands full with a likely Xmas lockdown, so it definitely does not need another immigration crisis.
Incidentally does it have a govt yet?

Almost. Who appear to be already blaming everything that's wrong in Europe on Brexit.

[Kendhni]

I think we are fooling ourselves if we think the French have any intention of honouring any future agreement…”pas dans notre cour” is all they are concerned about.

What we have to remember is this is not Frances problem - and not for the asinine reasons some other posters have made.
If we saw immigrants that had arrived in this country trying to leave on boats we would also be waving hankies and saying "goodbye", and the posters criticising the French would be the first to complaining if any attempt was made to stop them.

We need to replace the agreement we had previously with the EU, and negotiate how much it is now going to cost us, and/or we need to police our own borders properly (like what people were led to believe they were voting for). The EU is otherwise too busy trying to defend its own southern borders to worry about a little island to the north of it.

[Kendhni]

This new variant coming in from Africa seems to have got the scientific community concerned.
It is not a case of if it arrives here, it is a case of when and can we handle it.

[david63]

What we have to remember is this is not Frances problem

That all depends on whether these migrants are legally in France which I would hazard a guess that many are not. As I understand international law, if you arrive illegally into a country you are deported back to where you came from. Now I fully accept that this totally ignores the humanitarian aspect of this situation - but that is another argument.

[Stephen]

I think we are fooling ourselves if we think the French have any intention of honouring any future agreement…”pas dans notre cour” is all they are concerned about.

What we have to remember is this is not Frances problem - and not for the asinine reasons some other posters have made.
If we saw immigrants that had arrived in this country trying to leave on boats we would also be waving hankies and saying "goodbye", and the posters criticising the French would be the first to complaining if any attempt was made to stop them.

We need to replace the agreement we had previously with the EU, and negotiate how much it is now going to cost us, and/or we need to police our own borders properly (like what people were led to believe they were voting for). The EU is otherwise too busy trying to defend its own southern borders to worry about a little island to the north of it.

I sometimes think you like the sound of your own voice Ken. I've never heard such utter nonsense.

If the above did happen I would like to think that as a civilised country the proper authorities would intervene and not just sit back and watch as the French are doing. Oh I forgot, we already are.

Now doubt you will come back with your usual self righteous script which I will completely ignore.

[Mervyn and Trish]

We need to replace the agreement we had previously with the EU

Were you asleep when we were in the EU?

Do you mean the agreement under which the French built camps conveniently close to the Channel Tunnel so that migrants could hop on trains and lorries to the UK?

This is not caused by Brexit. This is one of the causes of Brexit.

All that has changed is the method of transportation.

[Onelife]

Ken

You are quite right; it is of course a problem that has been pasted on through each country and as you say, France is doing what we would do if thousands of Irish tinkers thought they could get a better life in the EU. The fact remains that at some point the tap has got to be turned off, that is not to say that we can’t allow the tap to drip from time to time. The problem is that they will all say they fear for their lives and we have no way of disproving their claims…. some are genuine many are not.

I agree that the only way forward is to reach an agreement but the solution doesn’t lie in policing our boarders better… you can’t use a fishing rod to cast them back to France. For those who make it to our maritime border have little chance of being returned and as long as they know that they will keep coming…with of course a little help from our neighbours.

[Kendhni]

What we have to remember is this is not Frances problem

That all depends on whether these migrants are legally in France which I would hazard a guess that many are not. As I understand international law, if you arrive illegally into a country you are deported back to where you came from. Now I fully accept that this totally ignores the humanitarian aspect of this situation - but that is another argument.

I am inclined to agree that, just like ourselves, nobody has any real idea about how many are arriving, traversing or leaving specific countries. Asylum seekers have very few rights, but they do have right of entry into a country and it is up to that country to determine legitimacy. They cannot be deported while that is happening.

[Kendhni]

Ken

You are quite right; it is of course a problem that has been pasted on through each country and as you say, France is doing what we would do if thousands of Irish tinkers thought they could get a better life in the EU. The fact remains that at some point the tap has got to be turned off, that is not to say that we can’t allow the tap to drip from time to time. The problem is that they will all say they fear for their lives and we have no way of disproving their claims…. some are genuine many are not.

Indeed, but to turn that tap off we have to reinstate agreements we once had, but chose to dispose of ... now it is likely that we may have to pay for those agreements - which Macron has chosen to play hardball about and get other issues wrapped up into any agreement. Patel has already offered an initial payment of £54milion to the French for their assistance, which is nothing more than drop in the ocean.

The hindering factor is that under international law we have to assume they are legitimate until we can prove otherwise (i.e. innocent until proven guilty, a cornerstone of our legal system) ... which isn't easy and can take a lot of time, and we choose not to necessarily monitor what individuals do during that period.

I agree many (majority?) of them are not 'genuine' (beyond being economic migrants).

I agree that the only way forward is to reach an agreement but the solution doesn’t lie in policing our boarders better… you can’t use a fishing rod to cast them back to France. For those who make it to our maritime border have little chance of being returned and as long as they know that they will keep coming…with of course a little help from our neighbours.

I would compare policing 7500miles of border as being akin to trying to catch rain with a fishing net. I have no idea of success/failure of processing but they effectively have become our 'responsibility' at that point. That then is up to our border agencies to handle (and Patel has described that system as 'dysfunctional').

The only thing I might disagree with you is the use of the term 'help from our neighbours' ... not sure it can be described as 'helping', but rather 'not hindering'/'turning a blind eye'.

[oldbluefox]

Could it not be a case of the EU being incapable of protecting its own borders which presents an open door to migrants wanting to make their way to UK where they will be better treated than they are in France. France could absorb more refugees but are clearly happy to encourage them to move on.

[towny44]

Ken, if the old EU agreements had worked effectively, it is quite likely that Brexit might not have happened. So to suggest the lack of new agreements as the reason for the current problems is very naive.

[Manoverboard]

Did anyone watch ' Who do you think you are ' recently. Zillions of poverty ridden Irish in Liverpool and Newcastle ... no idea how they got there mind but there were no benefits on offer other than the workhouse. We are far too generous with these uninvited people and that needs to stop.

[Kendhni]

Could it not be a case of the EU being incapable of protecting its own borders which presents an open door to migrants wanting to make their way to UK where they will be better treated than they are in France. France could absorb more refugees but are clearly happy to encourage them to move on.

Very much so, As I said in an earlier post the EU has a huge issue along its southern border. It also has an issue on its eastern border but Turkey is providing some buffering. I think the argument of being worse or better treated in France is little more than a media spun red herring. Often their first and primary aim is to get to the UK (due to its unfounded reputation of handing out whatever is needed - a reputation created and fuelled by the British media).

Who has the ability to absorb and who doesn't becomes irrelevant ... that would be a bit like a northerner wanting to move to London and being told they can't because Birmingham and Coventry are in the way and they have more room ... the aim would always be to get to London.

[Kendhni]

Ken, if the old EU agreements had worked effectively, it is quite likely that Brexit might not have happened. So to suggest the lack of new agreements as the reason for the current problems is very naive.

You could be right. Alternatively Johnson could be right ... he has recognised that the loss of agreements is instrumental in the current crisis. That is why he is trying to sell his 5 point plan to the French (which aligns closely to the agreements we had previously). Personally I think this is another example of what happens when a government denies due diligence before signing an agreement. You will have to do more to convince me that Johnson is the one that is being naive.

[towny44]

Ken, if the old EU agreements had worked effectively, it is quite likely that Brexit might not have happened. So to suggest the lack of new agreements as the reason for the current problems is very naive.

You could be right. Alternatively Johnson could be right ... he has recognised that the loss of agreements is instrumental in the current crisis. That is why he is trying to sell his 5 point plan to the French (which aligns closely to the agreements we had previously). Personally I think this is another example of what happens when a government denies due diligence before signing an agreement. You will have to do more to convince me that Johnson is the one that is being naive.

I think I agree with you that Johnson is not the one that is being naive!

[Ray B]

Aside from the politics of the borders, all these migrants will, as well as work, need housing.
Here in the east we are building 1000s of new homes which attracts a lot of Londoners to move here. We do not have large ethnic communities here as can be found in other City's, therefore we do not have at present the problems some areas experience from these large communities.
Will this mean that the migrants with all their different beliefs migrate to these ethnic hubs to be among their own thus making the place less attractive to (without being racist) white English living there. This may already be happening in some places, I just do not know.
There may be trouble ahead, who knows.