Current Affairs

[Kendhni]

Well my thoughts are aligned with Johnson on this ... so that rules me out as well.

[barney]

My Grand Parents on my Dad’s side were part of the white flight out of east London to Kent
When it eventually migrated down to Kent, we left for coastal north Devon.
We have the choice but many others don’t.
There’s a very serious housing crisis down our way with private rentals as rare as hens teeth due to holiday let Airbnb.
This area could not accommodate migrants or refugees because there are very few places available.

[oldbluefox]

I think the argument of being worse or better treated in France is little more than a media spun red herring. Often their first and primary aim is to get to the UK (due to its unfounded reputation of handing out whatever is needed - a reputation created and fuelled by the British media).

Reports coming out of France from the migrants themselves are not complimentary. We should bear in mind that many of these migrants have friends and family already in the UK and are quite open about the reasons why they want England in particular - "It's a good place to bring up a family".

Who has the ability to absorb and who doesn't becomes irrelevant ... that would be a bit like a northerner wanting to move to London and being told they can't because Birmingham and Coventry are in the way and they have more room ... the aim would always be to get to London.

Not so. Look at the population densities of many European countries compared to ours and you will find that most of them have more land space with fewer bodies to fill it. We are but a tiny island and whilst it would be very accommodating of us to accept all those who want to come and live here we simply do not have the space nor the infrastructure to accept them all. Realistically it is an idealistic pipedream.
As for an amnesty all that will do is signal for more to come and will solve a short term problem but create problems in the long term.

[Kendhni]

Reports coming out of France from the migrants themselves are not complimentary. We should bear in mind that many of these migrants have friends and family already in the UK and are quite open about the reasons why they want England in particular - "It's a good place to bring up a family".

I would definitely say the UK is a great place to bring up a family, but I also think that when approached and asked such a question there may be an element of being told what they think we want to hear. I think another measure was a program on TV, maybe a year or so ago, when they asked a lot of migrants that were setting out or already on their journey, where they were heading and why. The UK came out favourably for many different reasons, so those people had no intention of stopping their journey anywhere other than the UK.

Who has the ability to absorb and who doesn't becomes irrelevant ... that would be a bit like a northerner wanting to move to London and being told they can't because Birmingham and Coventry are in the way and they have more room ... the aim would always be to get to London.

Not so. Look at the population densities of many European countries compared to ours and you will find that most of them have more land space with fewer bodies to fill it. We are but a tiny island and whilst it would be very accommodating of us to accept all those who want to come and live here we simply do not have the space nor the infrastructure to accept them all. Realistically it is an idealistic pipedream.

That wasn't what I was trying to get at, I was looking at it from the POV of the migrant. What I meant was that many have a single goal which is to reach the UK (for whatever reason) ... the ability of any country to absorb (or not) is not part of the thought process of those operating under such a singular mindset. Even if they stop off in one country, they will resume their goal at the earliest opportunity.

As for an amnesty all that will do is signal for more to come and will solve a short term problem but create problems in the long term.

I agree, I don't think an amnesty is the way to go.

[Onelife]

Aside from the politics of the borders, all these migrants will, as well as work, need housing.
Here in the east we are building 1000s of new homes which attracts a lot of Londoners to move here. We do not have large ethnic communities here as can be found in other City's, therefore we do not have at present the problems some areas experience from these large communities.
Will this mean that the migrants with all their different beliefs migrate to these ethnic hubs to be among their own thus making the place less attractive to (without being racist) white English living there. This may already be happening in some places, I just do not know.
There may be trouble ahead, who knows.

Hi Ray,

One always has to tread carefully when saying what you have said, so I applaud you for doing so. We always hear about how ethnic diversity has enriched our lives and in the main I think this is true, but in some aspects, it has made our lives a lot poorer. We now have to accommodate and be accepting of many different cultural differences; some I believe are to the detriment of UK towns and cities. There are places in Birmingham where you would be frightened to step out of your car, places where women would never wear a skirt above the knee, and places where the laws of this country don’t apply.

The upfront face of multiculturism may have its advantages but things don’t look so good when you take off the makeup.

[Kendhni]

A bit dated but still an interesting read
https://fullfact.org/immigration/why-do ... t-come-uk/

[towny44]

How can the USA go from 105,000 new cases 2 days ago to 27,000 new cases yesterday. Surely that is epidemialogically impossible.

[Ray B]

Onelife, it's a difficult subject to discuss without coming across as racist. I tried to pose/ask a question in all innocence without intentionally offending anyone or sounding racist. Sometimes things need to be said/asked to try to understand the problem at the same time the written word does not always convey exactly how you meant the words to be received. It is the fine line you tread when discussing such sensitive topics. The same fine line that some use to stifle conversation or discussion.

[Onelife]

Clearly and eloquently said

[screwy]

We’ll said Ray.

[Kendhni]

Aside from the politics of the borders, all these migrants will, as well as work, need housing.
Here in the east we are building 1000s of new homes which attracts a lot of Londoners to move here. We do not have large ethnic communities here as can be found in other City's, therefore we do not have at present the problems some areas experience from these large communities.
Will this mean that the migrants with all their different beliefs migrate to these ethnic hubs to be among their own thus making the place less attractive to (without being racist) white English living there. This may already be happening in some places, I just do not know.
There may be trouble ahead, who knows.

Hi Ray,

One always has to tread carefully when saying what you have said, so I applaud you for doing so. We always hear about how ethnic diversity has enriched our lives and in the main I think this is true, but in some aspects, it has made our lives a lot poorer. We now have to accommodate and be accepting of many different cultural differences; some I believe are to the detriment of UK towns and cities. There are places in Birmingham where you would be frightened to step out of your car, places where women would never wear a skirt above the knee, and places where the laws of this country don’t apply.

The upfront face of multiculturism may have its advantages but things don’t look so good when you take off the makeup.

I agree, I think Ray approached it sympathetically. The one thing I would disagree is the use of 'White English', I would suggest that it is not only less attractive to indigenous people (including white english) but also to other ethnic groups. However this can work; in many places we have what effectively gets dubbed, Little Italy, Chinatown etc.

The problem arrives when areas become exclusionist and is nothing new, the issue has been about for as long as I remember and even gets mentions in Dickens. The primary thing is that the laws of the land must trump any perceived migrated laws ... there should be no such thing as 'immigrated laws'.

[towny44]

Integration is the main issue, and while many ethnic groups of immigrants have integrated into UK life, including many from the indian subcontinent, the mainly Muslim Pakistani immigrants seem to be finding it difficult to be fully accepted into UK life. I have no personal experience with this group, but I wonder how the younger generation with children of school age feel, and whether they are developing friendships with Muslim families whose children are attending the same schools. Maybe integration will develop as these schoolchildren grow into adults and if they remain friends with their muslim peers.

[barney]

I grew up in Gravesend which has a very large Sikh population and my generation are extremely well integrated.
At least half of my class was Sikh or black.
We all got on fine.
Many of these lads were third generation so although most wore turbans, they were very much Gravesend lads.
If you heard the accent without the visual, you’d never know the difference.
They still retained their homeland culture and the largest Temple outside of India is in Gravesend.
It’s some building, all financed by the community.
There does appear to be some immigrant cultures who have absolutely no interest in integrating.

[oldbluefox]

There does appear to be some immigrant cultures who have absolutely no interest in integrating.

Therein lies the problem. Where integration has occurred there is no problem and for the most part cultures can live side by side. Problems occur when cultural traditions are suppressed.
In Leicester the town council decided the traditional Christmas celebration would be changed to a Happy Holiday type celebration in order not to offend our ethnic groups. It was actually our Sikh and Muslim groups who complained and insisted the proper Christian celebrations be held, In the same way that Eid and Diwali are celebrated. Sometimes it is local government who create their own tensions.

[Ray B]

Indeed Foxy, a lot of these problems are of our own making, the do gooders and we don't want to offend brigade.
So far I have not heard of schools dropping the nativity plays in schools or Councils dropping traditional celebrations other than for covid.

[oldbluefox]

There should be more insistence on learning the host nation's language. The amount of money spent on providing translation services in the police and NHS is astronomical. This is money which could be better spent and does little to foster a truly integrated multicultural society.

[barney]

Once again international travel is the driver of the new covid variant.
Why can’t people just accept that it’s a long way from over and do their best to stay put.

[screwy]

Back to mandatory face coverings.! Good.
I was in Tesco this morning and a good two thirds were not wearing them.

[towny44]

Back to mandatory face coverings.! Good.
I was in Tesco this morning and a good two thirds were not wearing them.

I will reluctantly comply, but I just hope I wont make too many mistakes when trying to read my shopping list and product labels through heavily fogged up spectacles.

[Bensham33]

I ain't stopped wearing mine on public transport or in shops. Loads of people don't though. It will be interesting to see if we see more masks now.

[david63]

I was in Tesco this morning and a good two thirds were not wearing them.

It might start sending out the right message if the staff were to start wearing them again - i our Tesco none of the staff wear a mask.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Back to mandatory face coverings.! Good.
I was in Tesco this morning and a good two thirds were not wearing them.

Agree. Good. We've not stopped wearing ours.

[Kendhni]

I was in Tesco this morning and a good two thirds were not wearing them.

It might start sending out the right message if the staff were to start wearing them again - i our Tesco none of the staff wear a mask.

I have noticed that too, and also noticed many serving staff have stopped wearing mask in restaurants.
Time to reintroduce a 'no mask, no entry' policy - the time for pandering to anti vaxxers, religion and medical issues is over. If I am willing to do what I can to protect you then I don't care what excuse you have or how 'entitled' you feel you are, but you should be willing to protect me in any and all indoor environments.

[oldbluefox]

My feelings exactly Ken.

[Stephen]

Mrs S and myself have never stopped wearing a mask while in stores. And it looks like mandatory mask wearing is going to be reintroduced.

Covid: Tighter rules to be set out after two cases of new variant found in UK https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59445124