Difficulty of finding a cruise with Evacuation Chair.

[CaroleF]

Apart from a short four day cruise with my daughter in April last year I haven't had a longer cruise since Autumn 2019. Cruising with my daughter showed me that I really did want to cruise again after losing John in December 2020; it was something he had urged me to do. So I asked my sister-in-law if she was interested in joining me. I knew she had talked about going on a cruise but her husband, John's brother, also a sailor like he was, wasn't sure about the whole cruising thing. Things have changed even since I was on Aurora last year. Now if a passenger wants to take a wheelchair or scooter there are new rules. In the past I have taken a mobility scooter on Ventura in a suite and on Aurora in a mini suite. When I sailed last year I had an ordinary wheelchair. However, now it appears I have to have an evacuation chair. I don't need an accessible cabin. I have arthritis but I can still walk for short distances, I could probably managed to walk from cabin to dining room but if, for example, I wanted to go to the dining room for dinner, then go to the theatre at the other end of the ship, then for a drink afterwards and eventually back to the cabin then I would find it difficult. I'd also find it difficult to cope with boarding and disembarking because of the distances involved.

My new scooter is an E foldi Lite, one of the smallest and lightest on the market and it collapses so that it's like a suitcase on wheels. So I phoned Bolsover who I've booked with for all the more than 30 P&O cruises I've taken previously. I had a list of nine possible cruises. The cruise agent could tell me immediately if I gave her the numbers of the cruises I was interested in whether or not an evacuation chair was available. Out of the nine cruises, all next year, all on either Aurora or Arcadia, only two still had evacuation chairs available. I realise this is fairly late in booking a cruise for next year and certainly previously I would have been booking as soon as cruises were listed. So we decided on a 16 night cruise to Northern Europe and Scandinavia on Arcadia. I had decided on booking a suite if one was available. I would have liked an aft suite, John and I had an aft suite on our cruise starting from New Orleans and then going on to the Caribbean back in 2008. However, no scooters are allowed on the aft suites so it had to be a midship one, which is fine. I've now got to fill in the mobility form but my Bolsover agent assures me the evacuation chair is booked. I do realise that there have to be limits on the number of wheelchairs, scooters etc on board but the new rules seem to make everything more difficult for passengers with mobility problems. I am capable of getting off the ship under my own steam, I don't need an evacuation chair, I can go up and downstairs without problems but rules are rules. My sister-in-law, who I've known since around 1974 as we shared a flat together as young teachers, is beyond excited. Her husband is going on a golf holiday for the first part of our cruise so I think he'll cope for the time she's away! I know she's hoping she'll persuade him to try a cruise later on.

When John and I were cruising it was always me who did all the research and booking so that's been nothing new for me. I am pleased I've always booked with Bolsover as some people who say they've booked on line with P&O seem to have had all sorts of problems with booking an evacuation chair.
I am pleased to have a cruise booked. I've now got to get insurance. Previously we had it with John's bank but now I need to look around. Obviously I have arthritis to declare but other than that only blood pressure tablets so I'm hoping it won't be too difficult to get insurance for a reasonable amount. Any suggestions would be welcome!

Carole

[david63]

I've now got to get insurance. Previously we had it with John's bank but now I need to look around. Obviously I have arthritis to declare but other than that only blood pressure tablets so I'm hoping it won't be too difficult to get insurance for a reasonable amount. Any suggestions would be welcome!

It might be worth looking at opening a Nationwide account (if you don't already have one) as their travel insurance is currently £13 a month with an annual addition for medical conditions and a small additional charge for a cruise. The advantages are that it is worldwide cover with no upper age limit. Another company that I have found good is LV.

As for the evacuation chair situation, it is a complete mystery as to why Carnival UK is imposing such draconian rules - even if you have a walking stick it has to be declared and I suspect that because of this there are some requesting evac chairs that don't need them and thus denying them to those who do need them. Being cynical I suspect that it is a move to reduce the number of passengers with disabilities without openly stating that they do not fit their passenger demographic.

You might want to try looking at Princess - they have many similar cruises to P&O going out of Southampton and they are nowhere near as strict on accessibility.

[Onelife]

Hello Carole…I think the problem here is that cruise lines find it easier to class every passenger with mobility needs in the same boat. What they’re not taking onboard is that some passengers, like yourself use mobility chairs/scooters for ease of use around the ship and not as an absolute necessity to vacate the ship in an emergency. Perhaps the rules needs a bit of tweaking to that which only passengers who need a mobility aid to access the ship are required to meet the evacuation chair criteria?

I sincerely hope that you have an enjoyable time with your SIL and if this proves to be the case I would think about buying her husband tickets to one of the prestigious golf tournaments, ideally coinciding with your next forthcoming cruise holidays.

Enjoy!

[david63]

I think the problem here is that cruise lines find it easier to class every passenger with mobility needs in the same boat.

That is not true - it is only Carnival UK that is imposing these restrictions. No other cruise line, even within the Carnival group, is imposing them either in the UK or elsewhere.

[Onelife]

I think the problem here is that cruise lines find it easier to class every passenger with mobility needs in the same boat.

That is not true - it is only Carnival UK that is imposing these restrictions. No other cruise line, even within the Carnival group, is imposing them either in the UK or elsewhere.

Well, slap my wrists for that catastrophic presumption.

[towny44]

I think the problem here is that cruise lines find it easier to class every passenger with mobility needs in the same boat.

That is not true - it is only Carnival UK that is imposing these restrictions. No other cruise line, even within the Carnival group, is imposing them either in the UK or elsewhere.

I do wonder how many of the walking frame users, who could be in a standard cabin, would cope in an emergency. Quite a number certainly don't look capable of handling stairs, so I doubt they would manage without the help of crew members, and probably an evacuation chair.
In which case perhaps P&O are ahead of the field, and it's the other cruise lines that should be considering improving their disability regulations.

[Meg 50]

it is dire. A passenger on our last cruise had declared everything when she booked a year in advance, even given a free upgrade a couple of weeks before sailing - then bumped off the cruise a few days before sailing cos 'no chair'.
She tried another line - no probs.

The view is it's not the number of chairs that is the problem, but that each chair needs an attendant and there's not enough staff

[Onelife]

I haven’t seen any evacuation chairs on planes, trains, buses or in work place environments, so if push comes to shove with water/smoke coming down the ship corridors those that would require evacuation chairs better find their sea legs pretty quick because crew members won’t be sticking around to help them.

[Mervyn and Trish]

We had an evacuation chair to enable escape safely down the stairs and were trained to use it when I was still at work (when Dickens was a lad). But yes I would assume that staff are the issue, each chair needs a person to operate it or there is no point having it.

[david63]

each chair needs a person to operate it

I believe on a ship that there needs to be at least two trained crew members for each chair.

What concerns me more is that if push came to shove just how the crew would actually react. We all would hope that they would be there to help - but would they?

[towny44]

I think the problem here is that cruise lines find it easier to class every passenger with mobility needs in the same boat.

That is not true - it is only Carnival UK that is imposing these restrictions. No other cruise line, even within the Carnival group, is imposing them either in the UK or elsewhere.

each chair needs a person to operate it

I believe on a ship that there needs to be at least two trained crew members for each chair.

What concerns me more is that if push came to shove just how the crew would actually react. We all would hope that they would be there to help - but would they?

David you appear to criticise Carnival UK for being the only cruise line trying to ensure they have enough evacuation chair trained staff to cope in an emergency, then worry about whether the staff would actually follow the protocols.
At least with P&O there should be enough trained evacuation staff, not sure that Princess would cope with all the likely passengers needing assistance to disembark in an emergency.

[david63]

David you appear to criticise Carnival UK for being the only cruise line trying to ensure they have enough evacuation chair trained staff to cope in an emergency,

No I am not criticising Carnival UK at all for having enough trained staff but questioning why they are the only cruise line(s) to be doing it publicly - even Moley on CC does not understand it. My suspicion is that it is a sledgehammer to crack a walnut approach and that there are ulterior motives.

then worry about whether the staff would actually follow the protocols.

My experiences of ship's crew responding in an emergency does not fill me with confidence. I will give two examples.

Several years back on a P&O ship a passenger in the dining room suffered a heart attack during dinner. All the waiters, including the head waiters, just stood there watching and it was only when two nurses from nearby tables came to assist and were literally screaming to call the medical centre that anything was done.

Last year on Princess one late afternoon there was a medivac by helicopter from the aft of the ship. This required all aft cabins to be vacated for safety reasons. The crew that were supposed to be managing this had no idea what they were doing. Talking to another couple later the wife was asleep in the cabin at the time but the cabin had been declared clear.

Now I can accept that not all crew can be tarred with the same brush but having seen these incidents and the reports from the Concordia tragedy I am not overly confident in an emergency.

At least with P&O there should be enough trained evacuation staff, not sure that Princess would cope with all the likely passengers needing assistance to disembark in an emergency.

With Princess being an American ship and their "sue culture" it is possible that Princess may be better organised than you are giving them credit for.

[CaroleF]

I've read a few postings on FB from people who have booked an Evacuation Chair saying they were worried because when they received their Confirmation of Booking there was no mention of the booked chair even though they were told when they booked that one was available. I'm a bit old fashioned in that although I use on line for the majority of things, banking etc. when it comes to booking a cruise I like to see a paper copy. So I asked Bolsover to send the Confirmation by post. It came yesterday and included as usual, Bolsover's own Confirmation plus the P&O Confirmation and Summary of Booking. I was searching for a mention of the Evac chair but couldn't find it initially. It wasn't on the Bolsover page and at first I couldn't find it on the P&O page. Eventually I found it on a different page, at the top of the list of the Ports of Call. It said Evacuation chair for Passenger 1, that's me! Huge sigh of relief. Then when I went onto the P&O site and logged on to Manage My Booking and looked at the booking summary on there, no mention of an Evac Chair anywhere. I assume that the Manage My Booking summary is what everyone would see if they booked on line. If that's the case then no wonder people have been worried if they can't find confirmation of an evacuation chair that they thought they had booked.

I've also been looking at Shore Excursions but as I'm taking a scooter it now seems that I can't book any of them. Even the ones listed as Accessible Excursions say in the Important Information under the excursion description that they are sorry that because of safety reasons scooters are not allowed on the minibuses. So I'm assuming that if I want to book any excursions it will have to be with a private company. One of the ports on the cruise - Northern Europe and Scandinavia - is Visby and that I discover is a tender port so I wouldn't be able to go ashore then anyway. Not that it matters. The holiday for me will be the cruise. I love being aboard and that in itself will be a holiday and if I can get ashore at any of the ports that will be a bonus.

[david63]

logged on to Manage My Booking and looked at the booking summary on there, no mention of an Evac Chair anywhere.

I believe that it appears on the daily calendar on the first day (embarkation day).

[towny44]

I believe the reason scooters are not allowed on the accessible coaches, is because they don't normally have the correct anchorage locations for the straps needed to secure them. However if you can manage coach steps, and you or a travelling companion, can lift the scooter into a coach luggae bay, then you may be able to book a normal excursion.

[Onelife]

Depending on your steering and balance you could hitch it to the back of the coach.... you’d get a round of applause if you managed to stay on for the whole journey

[CaroleF]

David, on my Postal copy the Evacuation Chair booked does appear above Day 1 on the First Day but there's no sign of it on the P&O Manage My Booking website. Anyway I know it's booked so I don't have to worry. Onelife, I think I'll give your idea a miss!

[Meg 50]

....

One of the ports on the cruise - Northern Europe and Scandinavia - is Visby and that I discover is a tender port so I wouldn't be able to go ashore then anyway. Not that it matters. The holiday for me will be the cruise. I love being aboard and that in itself will be a holiday and if I can get ashore at any of the ports that will be a bonus.

We visited Visby on Britannia in May and we docked. The town is walkable though apparently bumpy tarmac

[CaroleF]

Thanks for that Meg. I was just going by looking up the various ports on Trip Advisor. I assume the post I read about Visby being a tender port must have been quite old. I'll certainly go ashore if I can.

[Meg 50]

Thanks for that Meg. I was just going by looking up the various ports on Trip Advisor. I assume the post I read about Visby being a tender port must have been quite old. I'll certainly go ashore if I can.

Visby was the highlight of our cruise. I was going to add some piccies - but can't remember how!

[poole boy]

when talking to our travel agent this morning she told us that Cunard are going to adapt to using the same rules as p&o for embarkation and demarcation
so that's another line we will not be going on again.

[david63]

when talking to our travel agent this morning she told us that Cunard are going to adapt to using the same rules as p&o for embarkation and demarcation
so that's another line we will not be going on again.

I thought that they already were using the same rules.

[poole boy]

the travel agent told us they had notification by email yesterday morning

[towny44]

when talking to our travel agent this morning she told us that Cunard are going to adapt to using the same rules as p&o for embarkation and demarcation
so that's another line we will not be going on again.

It probably won't be the last cruise line to implement similar changes. According to someone on CC these changes are to enable cruise lines to conform to new safety regulations in Solas 13, which comes into full operation in Jan 2025.

[poole boy]

well as I only use a walking stick to get round to be told by any cruise line that I must have an evacuation chair to be able to board their ship I am afraid we will not agree to that and we will go to hotels or hire cottages instead of cruising.
I personally think after hearing a discussion between senior staff on board last year returning from AMSTERDAM that they thought the number of people on board with disabilities was far to high and they were planning how to get the numbers much smaller.
if this is the way they want to run things good luck to them but we will not travel with them as will a lot of other people.