[Split from G011] Carnival Refunds

Topics relating to P&O
User avatar

Topic author
towny44
Deputy Captain
Deputy Captain
Posts: 8946
Joined: January 2013
Location: Huddersfield

[Split from G011] Carnival Refunds

#1

Post by towny44 »

There is an article in todays Daily Mail all about the current ABTA initiative to offer what they call refund credit notes instead of cash. It does indicate that this does not yet have govt support, but is likely to receive it, it does say you could take your travel company to the small claims court, but Which recommends waiting to see what the govt does. ABTA's plan is for travel companies to offer these refund credit notes (FCCs) which if not used to book another holiday would be redeemable for cash on July 31st.
This plan is aimed to protect travel companies from going bust, which if one did customers might have to wait a long time before they got their money back.
John

Trainee Pensioner since 2000

User avatar

Onelife
Captain
Captain
Posts: 11272
Joined: January 2013

Re: G011

#2

Post by Onelife »

towny44 wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 09:14
There is an article in todays Daily Mail all about the current ABTA initiative to offer what they call refund credit notes instead of cash. It does indicate that this does not yet have govt support, but is likely to receive it, it does say you could take your travel company to the small claims court, but Which recommends waiting to see what the govt does. ABTA's plan is for travel companies to offer these refund credit notes (FCCs) which if not used to book another holiday would be redeemable for cash on July 31st.
This plan is aimed to protect travel companies from going bust, which if one did customers might have to wait a long time before they got their money back.
Hi John, l posted a couple of weeks back saying cruise lines had no right keeping hold of our money after they have cancelled a cruise....l'm sure if customers are forced to take it to court they would win...........Do you know how much compensation a small court can award?

User avatar

Topic author
towny44
Deputy Captain
Deputy Captain
Posts: 8946
Joined: January 2013
Location: Huddersfield

Re: G011

#3

Post by towny44 »

Onelife wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 09:44
towny44 wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 09:14
There is an article in todays Daily Mail all about the current ABTA initiative to offer what they call refund credit notes instead of cash. It does indicate that this does not yet have govt support, but is likely to receive it, it does say you could take your travel company to the small claims court, but Which recommends waiting to see what the govt does. ABTA's plan is for travel companies to offer these refund credit notes (FCCs) which if not used to book another holiday would be redeemable for cash on July 31st.
This plan is aimed to protect travel companies from going bust, which if one did customers might have to wait a long time before they got their money back.
Hi John, l posted a couple of weeks back saying cruise lines had no right keeping hold of our money after they have cancelled a cruise....l'm sure if customers are forced to take it to court they would win...........Do you know how much compensation a small court can award?
I doubt that the small claims courts are functioning as normal at present, and anyway why are you so keen that everyone follows the new Covid 19 recommendations especially about social distancing, and yet you decry ABTA's attempts to prevent Covid 19 reeking a similar sort of havoc on the travel industry.
John

Trainee Pensioner since 2000

User avatar

Onelife
Captain
Captain
Posts: 11272
Joined: January 2013

Re: G011

#4

Post by Onelife »

towny44 wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 10:15
Onelife wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 09:44
towny44 wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 09:14
There is an article in todays Daily Mail all about the current ABTA initiative to offer what they call refund credit notes instead of cash. It does indicate that this does not yet have govt support, but is likely to receive it, it does say you could take your travel company to the small claims court, but Which recommends waiting to see what the govt does. ABTA's plan is for travel companies to offer these refund credit notes (FCCs) which if not used to book another holiday would be redeemable for cash on July 31st.
This plan is aimed to protect travel companies from going bust, which if one did customers might have to wait a long time before they got their money back.
Hi John, l posted a couple of weeks back saying cruise lines had no right keeping hold of our money after they have cancelled a cruise....l'm sure if customers are forced to take it to court they would win...........Do you know how much compensation a small court can award?
I doubt that the small claims courts are functioning as normal at present, and anyway why are you so keen that everyone follows the new Covid 19 recommendations especially about social distancing, and yet you decry ABTA's attempts to prevent Covid 19 reeking a similar sort of havoc on the travel industry.
Hi John....there appears to be a thyme running through your recent posts to me which is fine, as you are expressing your opinion about some of the things l have said. I would however remind you that goading to get a response dose you no credit......you are a better man than that John so l politely ask you to stop it.

Keith

User avatar

Topic author
towny44
Deputy Captain
Deputy Captain
Posts: 8946
Joined: January 2013
Location: Huddersfield

Re: G011

#5

Post by towny44 »

Onelife wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 10:55
towny44 wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 10:15
Onelife wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 09:44


Hi John, l posted a couple of weeks back saying cruise lines had no right keeping hold of our money after they have cancelled a cruise....l'm sure if customers are forced to take it to court they would win...........Do you know how much compensation a small court can award?
I doubt that the small claims courts are functioning as normal at present, and anyway why are you so keen that everyone follows the new Covid 19 recommendations especially about social distancing, and yet you decry ABTA's attempts to prevent Covid 19 reeking a similar sort of havoc on the travel industry.
Hi John....there appears to be a thyme running through your recent posts to me which is fine, as you are expressing your opinion about some of the things l have said. I would however remind you that goading to get a response dose you no credit......you are a better man than that John so l politely ask you to stop it.

Keith
Keith, you don't consider that I might think your response to my post could equally be construed as goading?
I dont want to fall out with you but where I disagree with anyone I will continue to express my views, and I hope they will be accepted as valid view points even when they are in disagreement.
John

Trainee Pensioner since 2000

User avatar

Stephen
Commodore
Commodore
Posts: 15925
Joined: January 2013
Location: Down Souf. The civilised end of the country :)

Re: G011

#6

Post by Stephen »

Onelife wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 10:55
towny44 wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 10:15
Onelife wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 09:44


Hi John, l posted a couple of weeks back saying cruise lines had no right keeping hold of our money after they have cancelled a cruise....l'm sure if customers are forced to take it to court they would win...........Do you know how much compensation a small court can award?
I doubt that the small claims courts are functioning as normal at present, and anyway why are you so keen that everyone follows the new Covid 19 recommendations especially about social distancing, and yet you decry ABTA's attempts to prevent Covid 19 reeking a similar sort of havoc on the travel industry.
Hi John....there appears to be a thyme running through your recent posts to me which is fine, as you are expressing your opinion about some of the things l have said. I would however remind you that goading to get a response dose you no credit......you are a better man than that John so l politely ask you to stop it.

Keith

Well said Keith

I wouldn't put up with that John

:angel:

User avatar

Onelife
Captain
Captain
Posts: 11272
Joined: January 2013

Re: G011

#7

Post by Onelife »

towny44 wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 11:14
Onelife wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 10:55
towny44 wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 10:15

I doubt that the small claims courts are functioning as normal at present, and anyway why are you so keen that everyone follows the new Covid 19 recommendations especially about social distancing, and yet you decry ABTA's attempts to prevent Covid 19 reeking a similar sort of havoc on the travel industry.
Hi John....there appears to be a thyme running through your recent posts to me which is fine, as you are expressing your opinion about some of the things l have said. I would however remind you that goading to get a response dose you no credit......you are a better man than that John so l politely ask you to stop it.

Keith
[/quote

Hi John.....No l hadn't considering anything l have said to you which could be construed as goading other than lighthearted banter....its not something l do.
If l have something to say to a person (gripe) l'm up front with it leaving them in no doubt where l am coming from.

You were goading me John which is why l was up front with you.

Regards

Keith

Keith, you don't consider that I might think your response to my post could equally be construed as goading?
I dont want to fall out with you but where I disagree with anyone I will continue to express my views, and I hope they will be accepted as valid view points even when they are in disagreement.

User avatar

Onelife
Captain
Captain
Posts: 11272
Joined: January 2013

Re: G011

#8

Post by Onelife »

Stephen wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 12:13
Onelife wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 10:55
towny44 wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 10:15

I doubt that the small claims courts are functioning as normal at present, and anyway why are you so keen that everyone follows the new Covid 19 recommendations especially about social distancing, and yet you decry ABTA's attempts to prevent Covid 19 reeking a similar sort of havoc on the travel industry.
Hi John....there appears to be a thyme running through your recent posts to me which is fine, as you are expressing your opinion about some of the things l have said. I would however remind you that goading to get a response dose you no credit......you are a better man than that John so l politely ask you to stop it.

Keith

Well said Keith

I wouldn't put up with that John

:angel:
Yeah! Thanks Stephen.......now bugger off :lol:

User avatar

Manoverboard
Ex Team Member
Posts: 13014
Joined: January 2013
Location: Dorset

Re: G011

#9

Post by Manoverboard »

I suspect that a legible Posting will emerge from OL shortly … see #18 …. just saying ;)

'
Last edited by Manoverboard on 28 Mar 2020, 12:44, edited 1 time in total.
Keep smiling, it's good for your well being

User avatar

Manoverboard
Ex Team Member
Posts: 13014
Joined: January 2013
Location: Dorset

Re: G011

#10

Post by Manoverboard »

Stephen wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 12:13
Well said Keith

I wouldn't put up with that John
:angel:
Very fair 8-)
Keep smiling, it's good for your well being

User avatar

Stephen
Commodore
Commodore
Posts: 15925
Joined: January 2013
Location: Down Souf. The civilised end of the country :)

Re: G011

#11

Post by Stephen »

That's what I thought Moby. I'm not one for taking sides :sarcasm: :D

User avatar

Onelife
Captain
Captain
Posts: 11272
Joined: January 2013

Re: G011

#12

Post by Onelife »

Manoverboard wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 12:43
I suspect that a legible Posting will emerge from OL shortly … see #18 …. just saying ;)

'
Is it because l'm getting £5.60 more than yo that you can't be bothered to correct my mistake ?......just saying! :D

:wave:

User avatar

Topic author
towny44
Deputy Captain
Deputy Captain
Posts: 8946
Joined: January 2013
Location: Huddersfield

Re: G011

#13

Post by towny44 »

Manoverboard wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 12:43
I suspect that a legible Posting will emerge from OL shortly … see #18 …. just saying ;)

'
I don't think I will be holding my breath waiting for a legible or sensible post from OL, anyway I'm finished with this, unless he goads me again.
John

Trainee Pensioner since 2000

User avatar

allatc
First Officer
First Officer
Posts: 1418
Joined: March 2015

Re: G011

#14

Post by allatc »

Onelife wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 09:44
towny44 wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 09:14
There is an article in todays Daily Mail all about the current ABTA initiative to offer what they call refund credit notes instead of cash. It does indicate that this does not yet have govt support, but is likely to receive it, it does say you could take your travel company to the small claims court, but Which recommends waiting to see what the govt does. ABTA's plan is for travel companies to offer these refund credit notes (FCCs) which if not used to book another holiday would be redeemable for cash on July 31st.
This plan is aimed to protect travel companies from going bust, which if one did customers might have to wait a long time before they got their money back.
Hi John, l posted a couple of weeks back saying cruise lines had no right keeping hold of our money after they have cancelled a cruise....l'm sure if customers are forced to take it to court they would win...........Do you know how much compensation a small court can award?
You're not going to get much money back from any company that has gone bust, court case or not.

Better to have a scheme that prevents that if at all possible.

User avatar

Gill W
Senior First Officer
Senior First Officer
Posts: 4897
Joined: January 2013
Location: Kent

Re: G011

#15

Post by Gill W »

Manoverboard wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 09:05
Gill W wrote: 27 Mar 2020, 22:38
… They will refund the funds to the card that I used to pay the balance. This happens to be a credit card, I’m going to end up with a massive credit balance. ...….
Some Card providers allow the raising of cheques … does yours ?

If it is possible then write a cheque to self :angel:
I remember, a few years ago, that Sainsbury's credit card used to issue cheques for use on the credit card account. I also remember that they used to treat any cheques payable to the account holder as a cash advance, and charge the applicable fee. I doubt very much that my current provider is geared up for cheques anyway

I'll no doubt be getting a few more refunds before this is done. What with phone lines being ultra busy , reduced staffing and reduced hours, I'll leave it for the time being and sort it out later. As long as it's in an account in my name, that's all I'm bothered about right now.
Gill

User avatar

Gill W
Senior First Officer
Senior First Officer
Posts: 4897
Joined: January 2013
Location: Kent

Re: G011

#16

Post by Gill W »

towny44 wrote: 27 Mar 2020, 22:48

Gill, I understand from another forum that you can request your credit card provider to transfer a large sum back tour bank in these circumstances. I also agree with your assessment of P&Os handling of the refunds, but if they reduced the final balance period to say 6 weeks, and allowed FCCs to be used against existing bookings, then we would be happy with that, but that's mainly because we have 4 P&O cruises booked over 2021 and 2022.
If I had another account with the credit card issuer, it'd be very easy - but I don't have any other accounts with them. They may not be willing to transfer the monies to an account that they would regard as not previously known to them. (due to money laundering regulations. I used to work in banking). I will now doubt have some other refunds coming in, so, like I said to Moby, I'll sort it out finally at the end. I can offset current spending against the credit balance, so I'm happy enough for now.

Regarding P&O, I think a little bit of flexibility now, would pay dividends for them later on. One day, when we emerge into the new normal, people will remember how various companies acted while this was all going on. I'll be more inclined to give my business to companies who I perceive have acted reasonably and were willing to help their customers. Sadly, P&O aren't in that category at present.
Gill

User avatar

Mervyn and Trish
Commodore
Commodore
Posts: 15258
Joined: February 2013

Re: G011

#17

Post by Mervyn and Trish »

Not cruise, but we've had a holiday cottage booking cancelled and they've offered a change to a later date with no admin fee. When I asked about the possibility of a refund they pointed me to the small print in the contract which referred to event such as this outside their control. To be fair I don't think it is unreasonable. This whole thing is a huge pressure on both individuals and companies and if the companies have to hand back three months of earnings, or worse, they will go bust. We'd already budgeted the holiday spending so I'd rather get the holiday later than not at all.

User avatar

Onelife
Captain
Captain
Posts: 11272
Joined: January 2013

Re: G011

#18

Post by Onelife »

allatc wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 15:31
Onelife wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 09:44
towny44 wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 09:14
There is an article in todays Daily Mail all about the current ABTA initiative to offer what they call refund credit notes instead of cash. It does indicate that this does not yet have govt support, but is likely to receive it, it does say you could take your travel company to the small claims court, but Which recommends waiting to see what the govt does. ABTA's plan is for travel companies to offer these refund credit notes (FCCs) which if not used to book another holiday would be redeemable for cash on July 31st.
This plan is aimed to protect travel companies from going bust, which if one did customers might have to wait a long time before they got their money back.
Hi John, l posted a couple of weeks back saying cruise lines had no right keeping hold of our money after they have cancelled a cruise....l'm sure if customers are forced to take it to court they would win...........Do you know how much compensation a small court can award?
You're not going to get much money back from any company that has gone bust, court case or not.

Better to have a scheme that prevents that if at all possible.
Hi alllatc,

My comment today and that of a couple of weeks ago were in response to the way P&O (mostly) are handling the situation. As I understand things P&O are honour bound to make full refunds for cruises, they cancel…correct me if I am wrong. P&O (carnival) are a robust company with very little debt (unlike many other cruise lines) therefore are better placed than most to ride out this storm. I think it scandalous that they are holding back refunds on cruises that they know they can’t honour.
Credit notes are only as good as those who bankroll them and I can’t see the government stepping in any time soon, or indeed any time at all….all the airline companies are asking for bailouts which are falling on death ears so I don’t hold out much hope that ABTA will fair much better.

Many companies will go under but it is the nature of the beast businesses are faced with I'm afraid.

User avatar

Topic author
towny44
Deputy Captain
Deputy Captain
Posts: 8946
Joined: January 2013
Location: Huddersfield

Re: G011

#19

Post by towny44 »

Gill W wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 16:34
towny44 wrote: 27 Mar 2020, 22:48

Gill, I understand from another forum that you can request your credit card provider to transfer a large sum back tour bank in these circumstances. I also agree with your assessment of P&Os handling of the refunds, but if they reduced the final balance period to say 6 weeks, and allowed FCCs to be used against existing bookings, then we would be happy with that, but that's mainly because we have 4 P&O cruises booked over 2021 and 2022.
If I had another account with the credit card issuer, it'd be very easy - but I don't have any other accounts with them. They may not be willing to transfer the monies to an account that they would regard as not previously known to them. (due to money laundering regulations. I used to work in banking). I will now doubt have some other refunds coming in, so, like I said to Moby, I'll sort it out finally at the end. I can offset current spending against the credit balance, so I'm happy enough for now.

Regarding P&O, I think a little bit of flexibility now, would pay dividends for them later on. One day, when we emerge into the new normal, people will remember how various companies acted while this was all going on. I'll be more inclined to give my business to companies who I perceive have acted reasonably and were willing to help their customers. Sadly, P&O aren't in that category at present.
Sorry Gill I was assuming you might pay off the full value each month via a direct debit from your current account bank, the credit card provider then uses this DD procedure to credit money back to your bank.
John

Trainee Pensioner since 2000

User avatar

david63
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 9391
Joined: January 2012
Location: Lancashire

Re: G011

#20

Post by david63 »

Onelife wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 17:04
P&O (carnival) are a robust company with very little debt
Debt is not the problem it is cash flow. They still have outgoings whether ships sail or not and if ships are not sailing, and customers are not booking, then there is no money coming in. I believe Carnival have recently secured a $3 billion loan to to tide them over.

User avatar

Onelife
Captain
Captain
Posts: 11272
Joined: January 2013

Re: G011

#21

Post by Onelife »

david63 wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 18:55
Onelife wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 17:04
P&O (carnival) are a robust company with very little debt
Debt is not the problem it is cash flow. They still have outgoings whether ships sail or not and if ships are not sailing, and customers are not booking, then there is no money coming in. I believe Carnival have recently secured a $3 billion loan to to tide them over.
Dept is a problem if you have lots of it David and P&0 are in a lot healthier position than most cruise lines.
You don’t get loans if you are considered a risky proposition…they will still be sailing when you and me are just lovely memories of years gone by.
:wave:

User avatar

Topic author
towny44
Deputy Captain
Deputy Captain
Posts: 8946
Joined: January 2013
Location: Huddersfield

Re: G011

#22

Post by towny44 »

david63 wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 18:55
Onelife wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 17:04
P&O (carnival) are a robust company with very little debt
Debt is not the problem it is cash flow. They still have outgoings whether ships sail or not and if ships are not sailing, and customers are not booking, then there is no money coming in. I believe Carnival have recently secured a $3 billion loan to to tide them over.
This mornings paper says that Carnivaĺ are seeking a further $6-7billion loan to see them through the crisis, they might be looking to offer shares in exchange. So I doubt they would be doing that if they were flush with funds.
John

Trainee Pensioner since 2000

User avatar

Gill W
Senior First Officer
Senior First Officer
Posts: 4897
Joined: January 2013
Location: Kent

Re: G011

#23

Post by Gill W »

towny44 wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 18:27
Gill W wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 16:34
towny44 wrote: 27 Mar 2020, 22:48

Gill, I understand from another forum that you can request your credit card provider to transfer a large sum back tour bank in these circumstances. I also agree with your assessment of P&Os handling of the refunds, but if they reduced the final balance period to say 6 weeks, and allowed FCCs to be used against existing bookings, then we would be happy with that, but that's mainly because we have 4 P&O cruises booked over 2021 and 2022.
If I had another account with the credit card issuer, it'd be very easy - but I don't have any other accounts with them. They may not be willing to transfer the monies to an account that they would regard as not previously known to them. (due to money laundering regulations. I used to work in banking). I will now doubt have some other refunds coming in, so, like I said to Moby, I'll sort it out finally at the end. I can offset current spending against the credit balance, so I'm happy enough for now.

Regarding P&O, I think a little bit of flexibility now, would pay dividends for them later on. One day, when we emerge into the new normal, people will remember how various companies acted while this was all going on. I'll be more inclined to give my business to companies who I perceive have acted reasonably and were willing to help their customers. Sadly, P&O aren't in that category at present.
Sorry Gill I was assuming you might pay off the full value each month via a direct debit from your current account bank, the credit card provider then uses this DD procedure to credit money back to your bank.
I pay the balance in full each month, but I do a bank transfer via internet banking. In theory, they could confirm my bank details from the bank transfer, but the front line staff would unlikely have access to this info. It would probably be a case of the computer says no’. Never mind, I’ll just have to use the card for all my upcoming spending for a while.
Gill

User avatar

Onelife
Captain
Captain
Posts: 11272
Joined: January 2013

Re: G011

#24

Post by Onelife »

towny44 wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 20:18
david63 wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 18:55
Onelife wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 17:04
P&O (carnival) are a robust company with very little debt
Debt is not the problem it is cash flow. They still have outgoings whether ships sail or not and if ships are not sailing, and customers are not booking, then there is no money coming in. I believe Carnival have recently secured a $3 billion loan to to tide them over.
This mornings paper says that Carnivaĺ are seeking a further $6-7billion loan to see them through the crisis, they might be looking to offer shares in exchange. So I doubt they would be doing that if they were flush with funds.
Hi John…Carnival have been returning an average yearly net profit of 2.5 billion over the past five years. Now I’m none to cleaver with the figures but I do know a bit about wheeler dealing and if truth be known the Carnival corporation probably have their billion dollar profits stashed away in overseas high interest accounts while the loans that they have taken out will no doubt be at a lower rate than what they are getting in their higher interest accounts.
I do feel sorry for the staff and businesses that depend on the cruise industry but I won’t be shedding any tears for Carnival…they will bounce back…..btw..I know all about losing a business….I built up a good business over twenty three year only to see it taken away in a day.. sadly for third of what it was worth.

It’s the nature of the beast and all businesses are governed by it
Last edited by Onelife on 28 Mar 2020, 21:23, edited 1 time in total.


Quizzical Bob
Senior First Officer
Senior First Officer
Posts: 3951
Joined: January 2013

Re: G011

#25

Post by Quizzical Bob »

Onelife wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 21:22
towny44 wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 20:18
david63 wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 18:55
Debt is not the problem it is cash flow. They still have outgoings whether ships sail or not and if ships are not sailing, and customers are not booking, then there is no money coming in. I believe Carnival have recently secured a $3 billion loan to to tide them over.
This mornings paper says that Carnivaĺ are seeking a further $6-7billion loan to see them through the crisis, they might be looking to offer shares in exchange. So I doubt they would be doing that if they were flush with funds.
Hi John…Carnival have been returning an average yearly net profit of 2.5 billion over the past five years. Now I’m none to cleaver with the figures but I do know a bit about wheeler dealing and if truth be known the Carnival corporation probably have their billion dollar profits stashed away in overseas high interest accounts while the loans that they have taken out will no doubt be at a lower rate than what they are getting in their higher interest accounts.
I do feel sorry for the staff and businesses that depend on the cruise industry but I won’t be shedding any tears for Carnival…they will bounce back…..btw..I know all about losing a business….I built up a good business over twenty three year only to see it taken away in a day.. sadly for third of what it was worth.

It’s the nature of the beast and all businesses are governed by it
Carnival normally operate without any debt and fund all their new ships themselves but these are extraordinary circumstances. I haven’t been to an AGM for three years and this year’s will be next month in Miami. That should be interesting. They normally stream it online.

Return to “P&O”